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lazersteve

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All,

This is the first of several US governmental guideline posts I'll be making.

Here's a good document I compiled today to give you all some of the EPA's ground rules for precious metals recyclers. I tried to include the various reference documents in the binder. You should be able to follow the hyperlinks by ctrl-clicking the links in the document.

EPA Requirements


Steve
 
I am a 66 yrs. old retired person living in Northern Nevada living in a area that has silver minning now, also historically had the bigest silver find in the world, I have 4.8 acres of land with silver, with possible flower gold or finer, (some miners refer to as yellow rock) I do not wish to use mercury or cynide, instead I have a document with chemical instructions with several elements that after its use can be neautralized with baking soda...considered environmentaly friendly by most (not all), that I have had for more then 30 yrs. I asked a high school, college chemistry teacher if it would work, he said yes it would (probably before this web site was ever created) Nevada has the highest unemplyment in the USA. I wish to get a permit for a hobiest, WHERE CAN I GET A PERMIT AS A HOBIEST? In the the future I would like to teach others(the unemployed) to help themselves. Also direct them to this web site. It is a wonderful, very helpful web site.
 
Chris, I would think you should start with finding a NV BLM office near you, I am certain a clerk or official there can lead you in the right direction. I'd be willing to bet that if A. You owned the land and B. You are only planning to prospect as a hobbyist; you probably don't need a ton of permits.

Here is a link to find a BLM office near you, since you mentioned Silver, I'm guessing you are near Elko? or somewhere NE NV? http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en.html
 
MO Department of Natural Resources is coming out for a inspection of my area that i have been learning all my refining studies. Im working on building a recpectfull business and i was calling around asking questions about filling out the EPA ID certification and it led me to calling the DNR. Now they want to schedule a meeting to come out and look everything over. Im nervous but it will be good to talk to them to give me the confidence to proceed with the refining studies. Or shut me down. The reason im getting the nerve to post other than just reading is because if i am going to ask for help, its going to be making the the goverment officials happy. So if you sucessful refiners have a check list or any pacific they will be looking at? Any advise would be awsome and more appreciated than you will ever know. I am so nervous . Thanks for any help
 
Why would DNR have anything to do with your operations? Wrong fox, wrong henhouse. It's an EPA matter and unless you're above a certain threshold in generator status, are woefully mismanaging your waste and criminally polluting...they have much bigger fish that truly deserve frying.

I do not know how large your business is, the waste stream(s) and many other factors but seems to me to be an unnecessary hassle.

In any event, I'd simply sit and have them do all the talking. I don't see any reason for a show and tell.

If you are doing R&D work to start your business and are not doing anything, for lack of better words...stupid and irresponsible, you should enjoy quite some leeway from a regulatory perspective.

Ignorance is no excuse of the law!
 
The Missouri DNR is the legal arm of the EPA in Missouri so they are the ones who will be doing the checking and listing any violations at your facility.

You have told us little of your operation but as Lou says, listen to their questions and do not offer up too much. If you are an existing operation, they will look at things like waste holding areas, whether or not they have proper containment berms, and whether or not all drums are labeled.

They like to see records of incoming chemical purchases, as well as documentation of all hazardous waste leaving the facility. If you never had a EPA ID# that better be none! They also like to see a book full of MSDS's for all the chemicals you have on site.

If your production exceeds certain parameters, they will require fume scrubbing on your air emissions. If you are small you can likely apply for a "de minimus" status as you will not be producing the quantities of pollutants they chase around after. (unless someone complains) Usually de minimus status is applied for and granted after an application process is submitted by a licensed PE in your juristiction.

If you provide some details we can tell you what similar site visits would entail in other states, while the laws differ, the inspections seem to look for the same things.
 
Well where to start. I really got started studing and learning to refine after i perchased some uw-195 from uwin nanoteck. Wich was my first screw up. Because they wouldnt teach me how to recover the pgms out of solution ounce leached out of catalyic converters without a hansome fee. On top of that i still pechased, when i didnt ask all the questions to a refiner to get all the facts to consider when they except pm leaching solutions...
The Uwin nanotech rep and i agreed that when i perchase there PT leaching, UW-195, that i would just leach and ship pregnant solution to a refiner and i wouldnt have nothing else to worry about. Just get payed for the leached pgms. Which sounded great. So i made the perchase and started to call refiners. Which i should of made befor i made perchase because thats when i found out that they didnt except anything smaller than a 55gal drum full to be profitable for everone..
I figured i good start smaller , like cashing in on a 5gal bucket and scale up from there, but that wasnt the case. The uw-195 is one part uw-195 and one part 65% nitric. Which to make a 55gal drum full it would be like $1000 in just the cost of nitric. ... Which is very expensive leaching methods. Still going to use the stuff but i started learning other methods to build the capitol to perchuse the nitric.
Now that i have started reaching out for other methodes, i perchased lazersteves cc pgm refining method wich worked great and i was successful other than getting my palladium to drop but thats another story.
Now with Steve's method i zinced the hcl+cl and then and then used the classic AR methed with the pgm black, then i nutrlized acid with sodium carbcarbonate. I filtered the nutrlized solution, doubled the volume with water and dumped the nutrlized waste and kept, what i guess is zinc carbonate of sort.
But i am learning more eco friendly methods. I perchased a sample of the eco goldex. Havent tried it yet.. Ganna wait till after DNR get done at my place. I am also working on getting my license with another paten through Sasckatchewan University. They want to make sure i am completely legal and have all my certifactions befor they give me there refining tech.
But there it is, everything that i have been up to and your coments have been much appreciated. Looking to here back from you all. As always thanks Lean2live
 
I called sunbelt waste disposal and asked them things to be propared for there vist hecause they are the ones who recomened me to call DNR. They just asked me if i had something for the spills. Which i have cat litter. He asked me about my ppe. I got everything there. Told me to make sure everything is stored properly and securely. Asked me how i do my process and im working on building a simple fume hood now. But at the moment i do my AR and so on in a pallet made fence around my processes and work area. Told me to make sure i have my msds sheets. And that about sums up are coversation and said i should be ok for the first part. I know they will find stuff for me to corrcet and make better which this i welcome with open mind, but im just scraed that they will shut me down and worst. Im usually a skeptic and think the worst.
 
According to UWin nanotech's website a 55 gallon drum will hold $21,000 worth of palladium. You seem to be shopping around and not settled on a method and you may have shot yourself in the foot by calling the DNR. Do you have a substantial quantity of converters to process? Are you willing to not recover the Rhodium? Have you stripped converters with the uw 195?

I think you need to work out your process first, if you haven't done much processing the DNR will be easy to please, they just want to see what chemicals you are using and how much. And how you dispose of any waste. From what you have said if you ship acid containing precious metals to a refiner that is exempt from hazardous waste manifesting but the refiner needs to have the proper permits to pick it up.
 
The reason i didnt continue using uw-195 is because i didnt realize i would need another $1000 for nitric acid to be able to strip a 55gal full. And i dont have $1000 for the nitric at the monent. Thats why i said im looking for cheaper method to earn some capital for the nitric. Ontop of that Uwin told me that it would be $10000 for them to teach me PM recovery out of uw-195. She did send me the flow chart to percipitating the pgms out but never told how to use it. Maybe ill set another post of the flow chart and see if anyone here good work it out. The lady from Uwin asked not to show it to anyone tho. Should i honer her request and keep flow chart to myself?

The reason i called DNR is because i was updating my EPA Id application and i was trying to figure out if i was considered a treater if i treat my own chemicals. Besides i dont think i shot myself in the foot because i am not trying to hide nothing from no one. Im trying to build a respectfull company so if they could come in and help out and tell me what to do better, than im all for it. The DNR said i would be ok as long it wasnt total chaos. I guess she could just be saying that to get thereself in the door.
Yeah i have a steady suply of catalyic coverters. I work at a tow company and my boss has gave me title to all cc. Yeah im going for Rhodium. Lol i go for any PM that i can. Why you ask if im going for Rhodium? Yes i have used and have about a half gal left from a pregnant solution. I had a gal of it but i tried working out the flow chart and got half of gal left.
No i havent done to many proccess. I have been working slow trying to learn and get set up in proper refining techniques and enviroment. I got till this 24th to fix anything that might be a danger to me or the enviroment.
As always i want to thank you and guess i need not to be such a stranger on the forum.
 
I have found that catalytic converters are processed in Europe in plasma arc furnaces at very reasonable rates, much better rates than you will spend on chemistry to solvate the PM's and equipment to recover the metals.

You need a Cat Guillotine to de-can the converters and separate the matrix that holds the PM's from the steel housing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf5YgUBCAWY Then you can crush and blend and prepare homogeneous samples to know what you have before you ship.

You can accomplish the same thing with a shear and dust collectors but these units make life easier and the workplace cleaner and healthier.
 
Johnson Matthey is another magor PGM refiner also here in the US. And yes sure all that equipment and technology they have would be nice but you are talking to someone working on a shoe string budget. Starting with nothing , trying to end with something more than just a hoppy.
So far my plan is to have my msds sheets, have something for spills if there ever was any, have my ppe, have my chemicals in proper containers, and have hazordous stickers on my containers with them. The only thing i can think of is that i dont have is a fume hood and a air scrubber. Ill be sure to keep you guys informed. Ahh Two weeks away tell they show up.
 
If you've got two weeks, you should be able to put together some kind of basic fume hood & scrubber. It doesn't have to be top of the line. If you have something, it's better than nothing.

Dave
 
Working on it. I was able to buy my inline blower motor yesterday. I need the funds to buy the plexy glass and some paint, oyeah the pvc pipeing. Got to get more ink for printing msds sheets. Its stuff that is able to be accomplished but is just something that takes time and money. Fortunately in this field, its not the cheepsest hobby or buisness.
 
Butcher,
All i do is read, watch videos on how to refine. If you put it that way. I could just use a good size reaction vessel with a single hole stopper, with a hose running out away. Matter of fact it would save a little power running a electric powed fume hood. Got ideas to build it cheaper.
 
learn2live34 said:
Butcher,
All i do is read, watch videos on how to refine. If you put it that way. I could just use a good size reaction vessel with a single hole stopper, with a hose running out away. Matter of fact it would save a little power running a electric powed fume hood. Got ideas to build it cheaper.
If you run that hose to a simple scrubber and put just a bit of vacuum at the end of the scrubber system, you'll be well on your way. 4 metals has shown a classic system.

Dave
 
Thank you Dave,
You know its just that there is alot of information to take in, it can be a bit overwhelming, and its guys like you make life so much easier. I really think if i could show the DNR that i am in the working progress of accomplishing these things. As well as ppe, storage of chemicals, proper disposal of the waste, and proper labeling. I mean am i missing anything. I feel im ready for them to show up.
 
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