How to dissolve gold ore

sorry for posting this has been removed.
this kind a stuff is not for me guess, I should learn more before trying anything was just browsing on the net and found other posts on this.looks to hard to do anything with refinging better off for me buyn any gold from someone else. I had no luck with anything my mistake.

The above post sounds like an extremely dangerous way to make a toxic mess.

You're seriously over-complicating the operation - an occupational hazard when you're trying to refine "by the numbers" without understanding the chemistry.

1) Why add Ajax (active ingredient calcium hypochlorite) and bleach (active ingredient sodium hypochlorite)?
2) Why add (hydrogen) peroxide (a strong oxidizing agent) when the hypochlorites are already (sufficiently) strong oxidizers?
3) Why take weeks over reactions that can be done much quicker?
4) Have you calculated the cost of (just) your chemicals? Unless you have a very rich ore you're going to be spending much more than the gold is worth (nb it's just dropped below $1,200/troz).

Can I suggest you start (your journey) by looking at http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16292#p166012?

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Great. Can you show the gold bar you got out of that? I am curious about how much it yielded. If you have a picture of the melted gold, I would love to see it.

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Depending what exactly is in your ore you could create a nightmare of complexes that will not be easy to recover the values from using that mix of chemicals.
Acid recovery of gold from ores is generally not advised as its cost and potential to create toxic if not deadly fumes is too great depending on the mix of elements within the ore hence the reason the major mines use other methods starting usually with concentrating the values and often roasting a must before any recovery starts, the roasting can again create toxic and deadly fumes.
All chemicals can be dangerous if mixed with others and just because we use them in in our homes does not make them safe, when mixing chemicals a full understanding of what will be created and any hazards really are a must, by all means experiment but read and research before even starting.

Chlorine gas is generated in large amounts when you add hcl and bleach. Chlorine is highly corrosive to metals and deadly to humans. It has an accumulative effect that builds over time. It was used as a weapon in both world wars. It is heavier than the air and will flow like water through the air to any low spot. Especially useful in trench warfare. It was used to flush the enemy from the trenches into the sights of the waiting machine gunners. It was also used in concentration camps as a genocide weapon. The dangers of chlorine gas is well documented. With limited, acute exposure, a person will develop pulmonary edema (swelling in the lungs), wheezing, coughing, sore throat, eye irritation just to name a few. moderate, short term exposure will lead to permanent lung damage, coughing up blood, chest pains, body aches, hair loss, chemical burns on skin. long term, chronic exposure can lead to symptoms unrelated to casual exposure and will cause cardiac arrest and death.

Before you imply that something is safe, please make sure you know what your talking about. There are impressionable people that read this forum and come here to gain knowledge and understanding. Implying that chlorine gas is less dangerous than any other chemical, including nitric acid, is false. It is my opinion that you are not taking the hazards and your safety serious enough. You should devote more time into learning how to be safe before you try and advise someone else on refining.

Never seen turning a Bathroom into a Fume Hood before. I suspect long-term structural damage is on the way.

This really sound like a witches brew type of concoction. It also sounds like you are seriously overcomplicating a process.

Also, bringing anything like this indoors can kill you, your family, pets, or anyone who comes into the house to help recue anyone who is overcome by the fumes/off gasses produced. If you want to continue along these lines, at least put out notes so the first responders know what to expect.

Doing what you are doing is very dangerous and irresponsible.

Since this guy had deleted all his posts I won't ask what he is doing with his waste liquids

Wonder how long he will be a member ?

I'm not fond of those who start a thread, then delete the content, so nothing makes sense. I've said, time and again, that's the basis for being banned. And so it will be.

Harold

I had a question on the use of HCL and CL being used to dissolve gold. What I was looking for was its' effects on other PMs. Would it, or would it not attack other metals as well thus leaving contaminations in the solution. This is what I found, see attachment. I hope the more experienced members will take just a bit of time and read this and just let me know. The text of interest is on the right column under "operation ". The English is broken. In my case I'm not dealing with gold bearing ore but wondering if the same process is a viable substitute for the use of Nitric acid.

Yes, it will dissolve a great many different metals. The greatest quality, in my opinion, is the the dissolving effect is short lived. When digesting foils or powders, there is plenty of power for the job. Don't try to dissolve other solids such as jewelry because the chlorine gas escapes the solution too quickly to be of much use for that. There are processes to remove the base metal first leaving the gold and a small amount of base metal behind that should be used before the hcl/Cl process. The hcl/Cl should dissolve the gold and base metal alike. If you are asking about other precious metals, it has little effect on silver and limited effect on PGM's but will put PGM metals into solution as well if they are finely divided powders or flakes.

Most of the values are encapsulated within the host rock, where they are safe from attack by the Leach. If you want to recover the majority of the PM's, the Ore will need to be ground to a powder.

Geo said:

Yes, it will dissolve a great many different metals. The greatest quality, in my opinion, is the the dissolving effect is short lived. When digesting foils or powders, there is plenty of power for the job. Don't try to dissolve other solids such as jewelry because the chlorine gas escapes the solution too quickly to be of much use for that. There are processes to remove the base metal first leaving the gold and a small amount of base metal behind that should be used before the hcl/Cl process. The hcl/Cl should dissolve the gold and base metal alike. If you are asking about other precious metals, it has little effect on silver and limited effect on PGM's but will put PGM metals into solution as well if they are finely divided powders or flakes.

Click to expand...

Thanks Geo, I thought that might be the case. I have been experimenting with it using a couple of pins or clips at a time. I do this in a 1oz / 30 ml jar. Very small amounts. I came up with an idea. Knowing the gas was leaving and weakening the solution I decided to cover it with saran wrap. Still inconclusive as to the results. The idea being to attempt to capture the chlorine gas and keep it recycling with out creating too much internal pressure. I need to do some more reading on the subject.

Thanks again

Joe

Your welcome but I doubt that I helped you very much if at all. hcl/Cl will not work well with whole pins. I will try to explain. When you have an acid or combination of acids that will dissolve any number of metals and then add that to mixed metals, you would assume that the acid will start dissolving the metals starting with the outside first and work it's way inward. Due to the reactivity series of metals, the more reactive metals will dissolve first. In other words, if you try to dissolve gold plated pins in AR, The acid will only attack the gold until base metal is exposed. At this point, the acid will bypass the gold and start dissolving the base metal leaving the gold plating intact. It's at this point that any gold that did dissolve will cement out on the bare base metal. The less reactive metal (gold) will dissolve last. This same principle works with hcl/Cl as well. The reason some use hcl/Cl on foils and powders is there's no need to denox the solution Just heat and let cool. Do not try to use hcl/Cl to process whole pins.

Geo said:

Your welcome but I doubt that I helped you very much if at all. hcl/Cl will not work well with whole pins. I will try to explain. When you have an acid or combination of acids that will dissolve any number of metals and then add that to mixed metals, you would assume that the acid will start dissolving the metals starting with the outside first and work it's way inward. Due to the reactivity series of metals, the more reactive metals will dissolve first. In other words, if you try to dissolve gold plated pins in AR, The acid will only attack the gold until base metal is exposed. At this point, the acid will bypass the gold and start dissolving the base metal leaving the gold plating intact. It's at this point that any gold that did dissolve will cement out on the bare base metal. The less reactive metal (gold) will dissolve last. This same principle works with hcl/Cl as well. The reason some use hcl/Cl on foils and powders is there's no need to denox the solution Just heat and let cool. Do not try to use hcl/Cl to process whole pins.

Click to expand...

Yes I noticed just what you said. Its' apparent to me now that the only method is to dissolve the base metals first. There is no shortcut. The pins gave me heck. Always ended up with bits and pieces that had to be picked out. I had these problems before I joined the forum. Then I found one of your youtube videos', (great job) with the link to this forum. Between Hokes' book, this forum and documents I'm reading from reputable salvage and mining companies I am learning a lot. For now I'm gathering scrap but setting it aside, and just working with the solution I have and hokes book to learn the testing procedures.

Joe

Good to hear you wanting to learn instead of just diving in and making messes.

Hopefully even the little liquids you have left are being properly disposed of. Most important for us is safety from start to final liquid disposal.

small batches are a must to learn with and HCL + bleach is as easy to work with as anything.

Just mind the fumes and where you store and dispose of it. Fumes are not deadly if treated with respect. Never get a good wiff of anything. Chlorine gas will drop you before you know what is happening and man does it burn...

The covering question about keeping Chlorine in solution works to the extent that pressure will slow it's gassing but will build to extreme so careful on a pressure release. I have read a couple experiments and thoughts on keeping the solution cold to slow the gassing. But it also slows the reactions. I'm sure there is a happy spot with containment and temperature where it would work best but that would be dependent on several other variables so might be hard to pin down.

Also watching how much bleach to HCL as the PH will rise to a point reactions will stop.

Just some key points to ponder.

B.S.

Because of the potential energy released, it is not a good idea to cap any reaction unless you know exactly what to expect. Should a reaction vessel fail because of built up pressure, pieces of the vessel and acidic, toxic liquid will be thrown in all directions. The volume of gasses released from even a small amount of sodium hypochlorite can build enormous pressure in an enclosed space. Trying to keep the pressure on the reaction is dangerous to say the least.