lead fumes

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ashir

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
256
hi every one. i was doing pm's recovery as a small scale refiner. now i am going to setup a middle to large setup. the problems i am facing are the toxic fumes to handle. i read alot on this forum about fume hoods, fume scrubbing setups. well i write all the ideas and want test on them. my problem is now that i can not get any idea to deal with lead fumes.i want incinerate, grind, smelt with lead/flux as collector metal and then absorb the lead,
i need an idea to scrub the fumes when melting ashes and lead. is passing through a water tank will enough to handle such fumes?
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/mineral-exploration-mining/documents/health-and-safety/lead_exposure_fire_assay_labs2016.pdf

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00966665.1957.10467756

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/leadsmelter/environmentalcontrols/dustcollectionsystems.html

https://tri-mer.com/dust-collection/battery-wet-dust-collection.html
 
thanks butcher.
i read kavjanb pointing out about lead fume controler according to rules. but he not explain more. i was thinking to get some ideas with pictures. well thanks alot for links. let me read and i will disturb you once again
 
so i read all in given links. quite informative. i want try a self/ home made scrubber. can you guide any link for guidlines. and can an acid fume scrubber will work with lead fumes?
 
Lead fumes are particles, so if you have a wet scrubber for acidic fumes then I would expect most of the lead will also get trapped in the scrubber. You could also use a mechanical filter to trap the lead fumes but it would probably be clogged quite fast and needs to be able to handle any hot gases from the furnaces.
Particle filters for larger smelters are often quite bulky and usually goes under the name "baghouse".
https://www.google.com/search?q=smelter+baghouse

And I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong. :)

Göran
 
thanks goran. lucky to have answer from you!!. i am rethinking on my process, as i am not satisfied with controling system with respect to lead. i am thinking to mix some old mobile boards+ mix ic chips+ mlcc's. incinerate... crush to powder.... mix the flux( soda ash, borax, copper is already there in mobile boards, silver is already in mlccs) and melt them. get the metalic stuff. treat with acids. here problem starts. if i not use lead then i will have to face alot base metals. any other option to use avoiding lead and lower the ratio of base metals???????
or i can remelt the metalic piece in bone ash or portland cement ????
 
Shred, Pyrolize, Incinerate, Ball Mill, Smelt in retort furnace into copper anodes.

Now either sell as is, or process in copper electrorefining cell and your precious metals will reside in the slimes.

This way you get paid on the copper and the precious metals, not just the copper.

It's not a small project, and will take a lot of research.
 
Just to give you a little further information. The goal in the above example is to create a copper anode that is of exceptional quality, at least 95% copper content, and having very low oxidized copper.

You want to oxidize off all low melting point alloys in the smelting stage and have them report to the slags or come off as vapor.

All you want in your copper anode is copper, nickel and your precious metals.

Check the forum, look for posts by Shark (copper cell), Kurtak (smelting) and Kjavanb123 (smelting) as well as some of the tutorials on fire assay.
 
thanks butcher an snoman. its a headach on having such machinary that butcher recomend, nor any a simple lead particals scrubber. i can not get these in pakistan. i have to order abroad, too much expensive because of shipping and taxes. and according to snoman , i really need alot research , may be months to understand . smelting in retort furnance, copper electro refining cell are completely new for me even i never seen thier pics even do not know thier working principle. well i srarted learning about this type of process. as well as i have to keep refinng pm's in old ways. today i clean 3 kg mobile boards, thinking to process removed parts with ics, and using cayanide on clean boards with plated pins, image.jpegimage.jpeg sorry for bad light.
 
FrugalRefiner said:
The fumes coming off that board you have on the hotplate can kill you and everyone around you. :evil:

Dave

Very nasty stuff coming from the boards that way. Do a search for "sand bath". If done right it will help keep the fumes down. It isn't a perfect method, but can help improve things somewhat.
 
ashir,

What material are you planning on the recovery of values from?
Do you have a good understanding of the material and different recovery methods?
how much experience with any of this material or the processes?

The more you can share the more we understand what you are trying to accomplish.

Education and experience will get more gold than jumping in headfirst with the unknown.
Education takes time, experience comes with your education.

I cannot see much of a reason for smelting and scorifying with lead, but then again I do not understand your plan.
 
thanks frugal refiner and shark. i do not let the boards start burning i useimage.jpg
and just heat it enough to melt the solder and remove all components with knife. no burning of boards or plastic.
now butcher, here was my idea
i buy scrap from yards and assay it in low medium and high grade and sell it again but a good and old stuff is keep safe for refining my self. so from smal refining processes , i was trying to move forward with medium to large scale setup
incinirate ics and mlccs and complete mobile boards. grind. use flux ( soda ash borax lead potassium nitrate ) melt. remelt in calcium hydroxide and wood ash mixture pot to absorb lead. use acid to seprate pms( use cayanide on clean mobile boards and pins)
as i not get a lead fume controling system even no home made idea. i rethink and change plan. remove components from mobile boards, iccs and mlccs from motherboards and rams, incinirate. grind . use silver with flux as collector mathond. and use acids to metalic piece. but snoman reffer a copper cell as a large amount of copper in mobile boards. i can not buy any copper cell in pakistan . i have to order aboroad as i was asked for lead fume scrubber. and it will be so much expensive for me to reach. . now i am looking for your advice and guidelines! thanks
 
A picture speaks many words.
I see a picture of someone cooking circuit boards over an electrically heated coil burner subjecting themselves and their neighbors to toxic fumes and deposits on the areas around them. The burner will not last long in the acidic environment of the volatile toxic acids coming from the circuit boards. a sand bath would be more helpful and the burner would last longer and be more efficient(under a fume hood, or outdoors away from population or living areas), the solder will collect in the sand bath...

One thing this picture says to me is that your a beginner, with some ideas and just enough of an understanding of the recovery and refining to be dangerous to yourself at this point and wish to go on a journey with a large-scale operation, before gaining an understand many of the basics.

snoman701 gave sound advice, smelting copper in a retort furnace and selling the copper or refining the copper ( a copper cell can be made easily (having a good power source is a requirement).

As a beginner in this, I would work on a small scale, maybe with several processes, gaining a good understanding with study and experimenting on a small scale, gaining an understanding of the processes, and how to perform them safely, much of what can be done on a large scale with large investments in expensive equipment, can be done safely with a small lab and easily available (sometimes homemade) equipment, the processes proven on a lab scale model can be scaled up, the process which proves difficult or failures on the small scale is not as devastating to your financial status, and these failures add to your education in the lab.

I say start this out small with educating yourself (which is what you are doing now), work on the safety portion of your study, what good is a few hundred grams of gold to a man dying from toxic fumes?

Start out with the small experiments of what you have gained from your study, from these small experiments gain an education of how things actually work and where the problems occur.

I would experiment with several different processes on a small scale, before deciding on a process to go big with, before investing much time and money to find it will not work out as planned or as the idea in my head.

Basically, I would spend time learning to recover and refine safely with several different processes on a small scale, gaining experience before jumping in on a large scale.
 
thanks butcher. yes you see in picture is actually i was doing that, i explain the picture as i am not letting board to burn or give fumes. i grip this with plier and place on heat and pic up , again a little heat and pick up. so only solder melt but board not burn. and as solder melt then clean components with knife from boards.
i did recycling as a home refiner a ton plus mobile boards and thousands of kg motherboards. alot of losses in start, many setups for fumes. first time think for medium type refining. setting up fumes scrubbers, furnance setups,
and yes safety safety safety safety! thats really matter as i change my plans of using lead because i can not handle lead particals. and i do not want creat a killing dose for envoirenment! so that is asafety that is changing my plans again and again. here we are setting up our refining
i will show all my setup as it will complete. now i have not idea yet about copper cell.elyctric large setup is not problem.
 
There are safer methods, incineration in a closed vessel with a small gas port-to exhaust the toxic gases into the main flames of the heating source to re-burn these fumes (afterburner).

Open heating of the circuit boards or electronic scrap and resins puts off toxic and acidic fumes, by re-burning these fumes, we can lower the amount of that toxic gases that leave the flue.
 
As butcher mentions in his post, the afterburner effect helps to remove much of the toxic gasses. Another side effect is those gasses can now be used as additional fuel for the burning process. Done properly, it will not only be better for the environment, it can help lower the cost of the process.
 
we are preparing something you both said. a pyroliser and later on , when fumes will end , we will incinirate the metarial.... i have problem to handle the fumes comes out during smelting with flux.especially kead fumes and oarticals. i am looking for a homemade idea for handling such fumes. (handling mean, the fumes treated in scrubber and the fume expose to air should be free of smell and toxicity)
and i am also intested on your advice to use a copper cell. but sgain i am looking to prepare a homemade cell. i need your more advice and guide on theses steps. i read again at least 92 topics on fumes scrubber as well a kavajnb post on " smelting fumes" but its not that i want know., i want get the idea to start to controle the fumes. thanks aloot
 
View attachment incineration.rtfYou only read 92 posts and cannot find what you need, try another search with trying a different keyword in your search. The answers you seek have been discussed at length, using different words in your search will pull up different results, where you can find what you are looking for.
 
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