Question about Brass and Neodymium Magnets

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scrappappy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
79
Sorry if this has been covered already but I couldn't find it using the search.
My question is about testing brass with a Neodymium magnet and the reaction you would expect.
I ask this because I have an old artifact that appears to be brass but it reacts to the Neodymium magnet and also seems much heavier than I would expect for copper. It's handmade out of two thin sheets of metal (like a small book binder) and measures about 3" x 2" but it weighs about 2 oz. It also appears to be hand wrought with possibly crude alloys. It would have been a precious item to the people that made it, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if some amount of gold was used. It's about 300 years old so I really don't wanna do any intrusive tests, hence the Neodymium test. Any other ideas ideas for testing?
 
Always assuming brass should be non-magnetic, I've just tested some brass bolts and spent bullet casings, and neither react even slightly to a hard drive magnet. I have some supposedly "brass keys" that do, but others that don't.
Bronze on the other hand, could contain a little nickel or other magnetic metal.
I hope this little, in some way, may be of help. Comparisons to known material may be your best guide.
 
Thanks for info Fellas. I think it's possible this might have different elements involved than standard brass. Might be why I'm seeing this type of reaction to the magnet possibly like the keys that you mentioned Jason. It also seems to have some type of old plating because it it's starting to wear off in certain areas. It also has a transition area between different metals on the inside of the locket as seen in one of the pics below. Also would expect more verdigris etc for a brass/copper based item of this age. I'm very hesitant to use the specific gravity test because I'm concerned the water would alter the materials that has built up on the surface of the artifact through the years. Without many options for testing... maybe something can be gleaned from the material with the naked eye. Thoughts?





Surface wear



Close up of metal transition

 
hi ,
some of brass alloys are magnetic base on composition of material in it as: aluminum bronze , manganese bronze , has the same look as brass and are magnetic , base on what I see it is just brass expose to moisture for sometimes.
 
Agreed--looks like brass, mebbe bronze. I'll split the difference and say "copper alloy" ;)

Since the two most likely suspects for a magnetic reaction are nickel and iron, I'd vote iron--even the smallest amount of nickel would really lighten the copper color. If I were to process it, I'd assume it has both.
 
goldsilverpro said:
Looks kinda like worn away gold plating to me, especially on that close-up.

I was wondering if that might be the case. The locket traces back to the Jesuits and I've read that important items were often encased in gold or plated. This one holds an old parchment dated from the early 1700's. Disappointing that it's probably only gold plated but interesting nonetheless. Thanks all for your help and insights on this.
 
Platdigger said:
My guess is gold plating on some type of Cupronickel alloy.

Good call! I was reading up on Cupronickel and how it's resistant to corrosion and seawater and that would make sense because this was likely carried during mission work. Probably explains why it doesn't have much of any verdigris that would be expected with other copper alloys, and also why it reacts to the magnet. I have one of the old 1864 copper-nickel and the color is almost identical to the locket. Thanks for the info! It's much appreciated
 
upcyclist said:
It's a very cool piece! Is the lettering on the reverse spelling "Maria" (Mary)?
Thanks. Yeah it's monogram for the Virgin Mary. The prominent letters MRA stand for the Latin words, ' Maria Regina Angelorum ', meaning 'Mary, Queen of the Angels'.
It's been an interesting research project.
 
scrappappy said:
upcyclist said:
It's a very cool piece! Is the lettering on the reverse spelling "Maria" (Mary)?
Thanks. Yeah it's monogram for the Virgin Mary. The prominent letters MRA stand for the Latin words, ' Maria Regina Angelorum ', meaning 'Mary, Queen of the Angels'.
It's been an interesting research project.

Four pages of information for you https://esotericcatholicism.wordpress.com/2015/11/25/jesuit-mystery-artifact/

This is a very interesting piece. Thanks for sharing it.
 
Grelko said:
scrappappy said:
upcyclist said:
It's a very cool piece! Is the lettering on the reverse spelling "Maria" (Mary)?
Thanks. Yeah it's monogram for the Virgin Mary. The prominent letters MRA stand for the Latin words, ' Maria Regina Angelorum ', meaning 'Mary, Queen of the Angels'.
It's been an interesting research project.

Four pages of information for you https://esotericcatholicism.wordpress.com/2015/11/25/jesuit-mystery-artifact/

This is a very interesting piece. Thanks for sharing it.
You found my Blog :)
I've been trying to connect the dots for awhile now but unfortunately most establishments won't speak to it. I think it upsets the apple cart.
Thanks for the feedback
 
The case looks a lot younger than the parchment inside. The hole for the ring looks like it's made by a drill press or power tool. You got a nice circular hole and it has cut the edge above it too in a very clean cut, pointing to a modern drill.
The material the ring is made of also looks too smooth to be hundreds of years old. There are also a tool mark on the ring that looks like it is from modern type of pliers.

Over all the quality of the metal work seems a bit cheap and my impression is that it is an old souvenir.

Göran
 
g_axelsson said:
The case looks a lot younger than the parchment inside. The hole for the ring looks like it's made by a drill press or power tool. You got a nice circular hole and it has cut the edge above it too in a very clean cut, pointing to a modern drill.
The material the ring is made of also looks too smooth to be hundreds of years old. There are also a tool mark on the ring that looks like it is from modern type of pliers.

Over all the quality of the metal work seems a bit cheap and my impression is that it is an old souvenir.

Göran
I can see where you might get that impression but I would have to respectfully disagree. One of the interesting findings is that the locket has the exact same shape and contours as the parchment inside. I had a few specialists give opinions at the Antiques Roadshow and one of them said he's only seen different materials form into the same shape like that when they've been carried together for a very long time. Typically items that were held precious to a group of people through the years. The general idea was that it may have been assemble over some time but all of it was quite old. I guess it's possible the hole could have been re-drilled at some point but I was also reading wooden hand drills dating back to the 1500's found on the shipwreck of the Mary Rose. The hand drill actually reminds me of one I used in wood shop class back in high school.. now I feel old lol. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
 
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