How much?

How many pounds of circuit boards does a person or small business need, to send them straight to a refinery that will pay based on the PMs?

depends on the company - some companies only require a 500 lb minimum others as much as 3000 lbs --- processing fees will range from $.90 to $1.25 depending on company &/or lot size (meaning some companies have a flat per lb rate & others have a sliding scale where the processing fee goes down with more volume)

Also some companies have other charges (like assay fee &/or other fees) some companies don't

Most companies pay out on the Au - Ag - Pd & Cu but their pay out rates will differ --- I talked to only one company that also paid out on the tantalum (that was about 4 years ago & can't remember the company name - I "think" they were in Pa)

Kurt

kurt said:

depends on the company - some companies only require a 500 lb minimum others as much as 3000 lbs --- processing fees will range from $.90 to $1.25 depending on company &/or lot size (meaning some companies have a flat per lb rate & others have a sliding scale where the processing fee goes down with more volume)

Also some companies have other charges (like assay fee &/or other fees) some companies don't

Most companies pay out on the Au - Ag - Pd & Cu but their pay out rates will differ --- I talked to only one company that also paid out on the tantalum (that was about 4 years ago & can't remember the company name - I "think" they were in Pa)

Kurt

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That amazes me so much, its like night and day. I just had a similar question regarding Canadian refining companies and the minimum lot size for the first time was 30, 000lbs. Can you please send me info on the companies your dealing with because it sounds a lot more reasonable.

I was under the impression that 15,000-30,000 pound lots were around the minimum also. I want to learn more.

In germany it's very common, that you can send them per kg. Although I guess that will not help. - It wonders me that it should be so different in the mightiest country of the world. :shock:

solar_plasma said:

In germany it's very common, that you can send them per kg. Although I guess that will not help. - It wonders me that it should be so different in the mightiest country of the world. :shock:

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Germany shouldn't be underestimated

solar_plasma said:

In germany it's very common, that you can send them per kg. Although I guess that will not help. - It wonders me that it should be so different in the mightiest country of the world. :shock:

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Not sure about the mightiest country in the world, but many things are different here. :|

Sorry for the delay in responding

Companies I have dealt with - Sipi in Chicago - they have a 500lb min. with a $750 min. processing fee & $1 lb flat rate processing fee (so if you have 500 - 750 lb the fee is $750 - if you have over 750 lb the fee is $1 lb) & they pay 98% on Au - Ag - Pd & Cu --- I sent them 1 ton of boards & it took almost 3 months to recieve payment - Sipi is HUDGE & they take in semi loads every day - so if you are a small provider your order gets pushed to the back of the line (I think) - I don't recomend them for the small provider

The company I am currently dealing with is a "much" smaller company & as of now I don't want to recomend them because so far I have sent them 3 loads of about 1500 lbs each load & the return has gone down on each load - I have a forth load in right now & want to see what the return is on this one --- they also have a 500 lb min. with a processing fee of $1.25 on anything under 1000 lb & $.90 on anything over 1000 - they do pay out 30 days after recieving & their pay out is is 95% on Au & Ag 85% on Pd & 70% on Cu --- based on their facility size I would say they can only handle 5000 - 6000 lbs in a 30 day turn around (thats just a guess)

Companies I have talked to - Aura-II in Milwaukee Wi - 500 lb min with a flat fee of .75 lb & they CLAIM to pay out 100% on all metals Au - Ag - Pd & Cu --- I don't believe them

Other companies I have looked into - some of these companies I have talked to - some I have not - I just don't have any info on them because they were ether to long of a haul &/or it has been a long time ago that I talked with them - some of them may only be brokers (claiming to be smelters/refiners) so you will need to look up their web sites &/or call them

Specialty Metals - Fairfield Ct - for sure a smelter/ refiner

CJ Enviromental - Sharon Ma - not sure if they are only a broker - or smelter/refiner Ph# 866 - 784 - 2238

123 precious metals (now called The Refining Company I think) - they may also be just a broker - not sure

San Diego Refining Company - I believe they are a smelter/refiner

So Accurate - Woodside NY - I believe they are a smelter/refiner Ph# 800 - 999 - 2209

AR Metals - office South River NJ - ph# 732 -238 - 8550
refinery Fairless Hills Pa - Ph# 267 - 316 - 2000

Gannon & Scott - Cranston RI & Phoenix Ar - I believe they are a smelter/refiner

CD&E Refining - York Pa - Ph# 717 -846 - 2387 - I believe they are a smelter/refiner

Sipi is $1000 minimum lot charge now, they changed it. Payouts were as expected, but it takes FOREVER for them to settle up. They will give you a refining proposal with net 45 day terms. You might as well use it to wipe your butt with. Like someone else said, I'm pretty sure it's a "you're a small fish, we don't really care about you" thing.

Also, there are numerous posts on here about inconsistent assays. With SIPI, sometimes it feels like they are simply making numbers up. Be very very careful. I've collected settlement summaries that people have posted on the web from them to analyze them, talked to the people that send in the materials, and found out that there are many instances where the people would have been better off shipping to a middle man (boardsort/cfcs) rather than the refinery. The more volume you send in, the better numbers you end up with, and the lower the treatment charge (they claim this is based on type of material, but volume gets you the better number, period). Just as a heads up, there was a gentleman on here this month complaining about SIPI screwing them and he was allegedly sending in 10k-50k pounds a MONTH and still getting dicked.

I think it was CJ Environmental that I sent some boards to last year. I am pretty sure they are the Cash for Gold people and pay like the Cash for Gold company does. If I remember right, I averaged about 09 cents per pound on the material I sent. Thanks for the information on the others.

Guys I don't deal with e scrap but I doubt if any of the big boys pay out exactly what they recover. Look at the charges and then the amount of work to recover those values and bear in mind you have no real idea of exactly what you are submitting to them. A good example I personally know of is the charges for floor sweeps,the large company I worked for levied, $20-€50, as the refining charge but then payed a maximum of 35% of the recovered values, another one where the company I worked for had a split batch of floor sweeps and the customer complained bitterly about our charges but eventually admitted we gave him by far the best return even after our charges. Unless you have an assay you are going to get screwed, 4metals posted a brilliant method statement to prevent it but it either costs you in time or in real money by having your material witnessed through all the processing.
Read GoldSilverPros signature line, it says it all!

Gotta get the sample of your material people, you should be there for it or have a rep. there for you. That way if you don't like the numbers you can have your sample assayed and go from there.

Smack said:

Gotta get the sample of your material people, you should be there for it or have a rep. there for you. That way if you don't like the numbers you can have your sample assayed and go from there.

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I like the idea but how do you insure that it's your sample for the assay? Will they assay as soon as your material arrives? I'm just curious because the more I look into things the more I see how this industry if full of lies deceit and crooks. It's a shame......

Claudie said:

I think it was CJ Environmental that I sent some boards to last year. I am pretty sure they are the Cash for Gold people and pay like the Cash for Gold company does. If I remember right, I averaged about 09 cents per pound on the material I sent. Thanks for the information on the others.

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9 cents a lb :?: ouch :!: were they low grade brown boards - even if they were thats still a bit low ---- I buy low grade brown boards for 12 cents a lb all day every day - I currently have something like 14 gaylord boxes of brown boards - these don't go to a smelter they go to a broker that ships them over sea's - as far as I am aware there is no one in the U.S. that processes brown boards (not even Sipi & they are a HUGE smelter of copper bearing material)

Kurt

Smack said:

Gotta get the sample of your material people, you should be there for it or have a rep. there for you. That way if you don't like the numbers you can have your sample assayed and go from there.

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Sorry but there is no real &/or accurate way (at least that I am aware of) to assay circuit boards because there is no way to get a homogeneous mix to get a true representive sample from until "after" the metals have been smelted out

Thats how they do it - they shead your boards - then incinerate them - then smelt out the metals - once the metals are smelted out they do the assay on the dor bar (ingot) & its that assay that they pay you out on

So yes - I guess you could ask for a sample of the smelted dor bar to send out to an independent assayer - but you are still going to have to pay them the processing fees for them to process to the point of the smelted ingot from which an assay can be done

Materials like crushed ore &/or crushed cats can be mixed to a point that you can draw homogeneous samples from to have assay's done that represnt the expected yeald on the larger lot --- this is not true with ciruit boards - the copper sheet, brass legs, tin solder, & other solid metals in them can't be pulverized fine enough to get a homogeneous mix for true assay sampling before smelting

Kurt

OK - I got on the phone & called the companies I listed yesterday & here are the results of those call so far


(1) Specialty Metals - Fairfield Ct - for sure a smelter/ refiner

They have a good web site - specialtymetals.com - with a list of lot sizes, fees & pay out rate on the web site - They list 3000 lb as their min lot size but note to call for price on smaller lot & they don't say anything about paying out on copper - so I called - they will do smaller lots but fee goes up (didn't give me a number) & your order gets pushed to the back of the line - they don't list Cu pay out because the only pay out on Cu if your lot is over 10,000 lb & then they pay 70%


(2) CJ Enviromental - Sharon Ma - not sure if they are only a broker - or smelter/refiner Ph# 866 - 784 - 2238

They claim to be "the smelter/refiner" - but then they also claim that they will process a 25 min lot size with no processing fee but instead pay a flat 82% on all metals (including copper) --- They are clearly being dishonest - no one "processes" 25 lb board lots - or as I say - liers & theives go hand in hand



(3) 123 precious metals (now called The Refining Company I think) - they may also be just a broker - not sure

Did not get around to calling them


(4) San Diego Refining Company - I believe they are a smelter/refiner

Tried calling but NO answer - not even a message service

(2) So Accurate - Woodside NY - I believe they are a smelter/refiner Ph# 800 - 999 - 2209

Also claimed to be "the smelter/refiner" & claim a $1.65 process fee with a pay out of 95% Au - 90% Ag - 80% Pd & 50% cu - forgot to ask about lot size min but then I could tell when talking with him that he was just pulling numbers out of his hat - as I say - liers & theives go hand in hand

(5)AR Metals - office South River NJ - ph# 732 -238 - 8550
refinery Fairless Hills Pa - Ph# 267 - 316 - 2000

They are the smelter refiner (I talked with both the office & refinery) They have a rep. for each state & the rep. for my state was out of the office so I am waiting for a call back from the Wisconsin rep.

(6) Gannon & Scott - Cranston RI & Phoenix Ar - I believe they are a smelter/refiner

They are the smelter/refiner - the person I needed to talk to was out of the office so am waiting for a call back

(7)CD&E Refining - York Pa - Ph# 717 -846 - 2387 - I believe they are a smelter/refiner

They are not a smelter/refiner - they do process boards - but only un-populated boards which they put through a cyanide leaching process to strip the gold plating

Kurt

Here is a link to a thread where we were talking about CJ Environmental last year. The clearly told me that they do not pay on Copper, only PMs.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11670&p=135854&hilit=+CJ+Environmental+#p135854

That proves my point - they are dishonest - they will tell the customer what they think they want to hear (including telling you they are the smelter/refiner) then rip you off after you send them your material

Kurt