Assay From Inspectorate

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Franciz

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
135
Location
Vietnam
Dear all,

I have pay ''inspectorate'' to analysis my 50m/t of used borax which i kept this used borax for 15 years.
I got the reply from them today.

Copper (Cu) = 2,159 g/tons ( 0.22 %)
Silver (Ag) = 137 g/tons (0.01 %)
Plattinum (Pt) = Not Detect
Gold (Au) = 28.03 g/tons (When i Call them up they told me is 28 PPM)

I am a little bit confuse here, Can anyone help me out?
It this used borax worth anything?
 
28 ppm = 28 g/ton

According to the numbers you have, at today's prices:
76.5k in gold
7k in silver

I'm not sure you can recover it profitably, then again, i don't know your setup operation.
Maybe you should investigate a toll refining at a large refiner overseas.
 
Thanks Sam,

I am thinking to sell it to refiner, What i heard from others is there is a type of so called flux recipe which they will mix it with my used borax and burn it for long time then those gold and silver will settle on the bottom.
And this method seems cost saving.
This seems unlike to ore or black sand as i think this should be more easy for refiner to recover the gold and silver.

And for Au 28 PPM and Ag 0.01% do you guys think any refiner will buy this grade(Used Borax)

Thanks for advices....
 
The problem with drums of unprocessed slags is they are not easy to sample, and unless you sample them correctly your assay will be suspect.

What equipment do you have to use? If you have a melter, what size crucible does it hold? The easiest way for you to get a reasonable answer is to re-melt a drum full using a special thinning flux, this will allow most of the values to settle out and be collected in a cone mold.

Get back to us with what equipment you have to use and we can discuss your options.
 
The surveyor has come to my place to collect the sample themself and they told me the assay is at least 95%up acuracate, i do not know it is truth anot but i have pay them about USD4000/- for this assay.I hire them to test it because i was onces told that i would need a Test Report b4 i can look for a buyer.

I have a home built burner using waste engine oil and a crucible will at least hold up to 50Kg of this borax per time.
To be honest, i have never seen a cone mold b4 in my life =).

My father and me are doing waste material for goldsmith workshop, I don think i will have them time to recover it unless my father allow me=)

I am trying to look for buyer to buy this borax and let them recover it as i have totally no experience on this.
But i do interested to learn new thing from professional here for the thinning flux, It must be real thin because i have try about 10 kg and burn it for 2Hr++ b4 and nothing falls into bottom and what i get is a very very sticky paste a real stick paste until i not be able to pour it out from a crucible so i let it cool and dry on the crucible and chip it off slowly it takes me whole day to chip it off and in the end i saw nothing on the bottom.
That why my father don support me for this recover process.

I am here to find if any serious buyer if not i am interested to learn from professional here too so if i really cannot find a serious buyer then maybe 1 day i would try it myself.
It is too many for me to process actually but will try my best if i will be able to learn here and able to master it...

Thanks everyone here for helping.....
 
Franciz,
You are best to find a local buyer, who can sample this product, As 4metals said the only way to see how much gold would be to have a very mixed sample, which would be hard to do, It would also be hard to find a buyer of your product here on the forum, and it would be such a gamble for many of us here on the forum to take, unless we could come to where you have the materials, It may pay you to take this to someone where you live and let them recover the gold for share of profit, or learn to recover this yourself.

There is nothing fancy about the cone mold (think of a big Iron funnel but no hole in bottom or spout {like this letter V}) you can make or have made one from scrap iron, or find something that is that shape.

Try small (work with small size experiment), test melts using torch and melting dish to get the flux recipe right, with good liquid melt holding heat till beads collect, and easy to pour.

I have made a small cone mold from a cast Iron plumbing fitting (threaded plug) it already had a bowl shape so all I had to do was use a drill bit and cut bottom little deeper, then use a smaller drill bit and again another smaller bit and drilled deeper, after several smaller bits, I used a grinding stone and drill to make the cone (V) shape smooth and finish with sand paper. You can even use steel to make the cone mold, (weld it or have one made)just make sure the glass slag will come out when you cool it (nice smooth V shape nothing for glass slag to stick onto), also oiling or sooting mold with torch (no oxygen) with your torch will keep glass slag from sticking to the mold.

you can also buy any or all of the the materials you need to do this from mining supply, action mining. com has catalog and even if you do buy from them you can see much of what we are saying in this catalog.

http://www.actionmining.com/Catalog.PDF

After your small testing is working you can then do this on larger scale.
 
Franciz said:
The surveyor has come to my place to collect the sample themself and they told me the assay is at least 95%up acuracate, i do not know it is truth anot but i have pay them about USD4000/- for this assay.I hire them to test it because i was onces told that i would need a Test Report b4 i can look for a buyer.
Franciz, if you hope to have a good exchange with the board and its readers, lose the text message lingo. I do not tolerate such things on this forum, for such things tend to lead to confusion, and can easily be interpreted as being disrespectful of those from whom you seek guidance. Each of us has earned the right to be addressed properly by the time we dedicate to the forum. Spell words out to the best of your ability. Do not use numbers to represent words. Do NOT use shortcuts aside from commonly accepted chemical titles.

Harold
 
hi butcher,

You are right there is a need for buyer to come over to my place to assay themself and then decide before they buy it.
I will listen to your advice for trying myself in a small batch.

I have try to read the hoke book but i cannot really understand since my english is not very good.
Should i use this receipe for melting my used borax?
30g concentrated gold and (crushed slag) Without panning
5g-crushed glass or sand
30g-lead oxide or copper metal powders
30g-sodium carbonate
2g-borax
3g-flour or maybe 5g charcoal

please allow me ask you a few question as i am not familiar any other thing other than borax,
Example:
1)May i use 30g of crushed borax without panning ?
2)5g sand, Do you mean any children play-ground fine sand will do?
3)30g-lead oxide or copper metal powders(i understand this part well)
4)30g-sodium carbonate''soda ash''(i understand this part well)
5)3g-flour or maybe 5g charcoal, May i use charcoal if yes issit the charcoal we use to barbeque? Do i need to crushed it?

Thank for your time and energy to reply me=)

Best Regs...
Franciz
 
Break up your flux so the pieces are small enough to react with a few more ingredients you will be adding in the old flux and do a flux melt. To the borax add some soda ash equal to the amount of crushed up old borax you have started with, add an equal amount of Borax (always use anhydrous) and about 1/4 part flourospar (calcium flouride) this will really thin the flux. Easy on the flourospar it eats up crucibles. Now heat it up to melting temperature.

Now pour the molten flux, which will be much less viscous than before, into a cone mold. The beads will collect on the bottom of the mold and are easily separated from the slags. Cone molds are valuable tools, often overlooked, but they make collection of the beads you have entrapped in the slag much easier.

It has been my experience that diamonds that have been fluxed and melted are worthless but Harold has had different experience and his input here may teach us all something.

Do you mean example;
1kg crushed up old Borax
1Kg soda ash
2KG Borax
750g flourospar

A million thank for advice...
Looking forward to try it out onces comfirm=)

Thanks and best regs
Franciz
 
Can i use other any item to replace the soda ash to make it profitable.

Thanks and best regs.
Franciz
 
4metals said:
If your assays are correct, or even in the ballpark, even with soda ash you will be profitable. Are you having a problem getting soda ash?

Hi 4 Metal,
Yes i cannot find soda ash and fluorspar in my local store. And i have been to my local chemical store they told me they can order for me but it will cost Usd1/Kg.

And if i have to put in equal amount of soda ash to my used borax then it is not very profitable.
Is there other way to do it?
 
You made this problem by melting using only borax, it is thick and holds up beads of valuable metal. I am having a hard time believing you can't get soda ash in Thailand, Soda ash, sodium carbonate, I had ho trouble getting it in the jungles of eastern Ecuador. Fluorospar I can understand, also called calcium fluoride.

I can't think of anything that would be cheaper and maybe if you expand your search a bit you can find it. You have a lot to gain by collecting the metal trapped in the flux you are holding, worth investing some time in searching for the proper thinning material.

If you can get enough to sample a few drums and do a few crucibles full of the old borax, you will be able to see how effective this treatment is.
 
4metals said:
You made this problem by melting using only borax, it is thick and holds up beads of valuable metal. I am having a hard time believing you can't get soda ash in Thailand, Soda ash, sodium carbonate, I had ho trouble getting it in the jungles of eastern Ecuador. Fluorospar I can understand, also called calcium fluoride.

I can't think of anything that would be cheaper and maybe if you expand your search a bit you can find it. You have a lot to gain by collecting the metal trapped in the flux you are holding, worth investing some time in searching for the proper thinning material.

If you can get enough to sample a few drums and do a few crucibles full of the old borax, you will be able to see how effective this treatment is.

Dear 4Metal,

I have buy 2kg of soda ash today. I have try to melt it with my used borax.
used borax 30g
soda ash 30g
5g crushed charcoal
10g lead.

I smelt it for 1hr++ and i pour it out from the crucible it is still very thick and only able to pour out 1/4 to cone mold and i can see small lead bead on top the cone mold''Just refuse to sink to bottom of the cone mold, I have already try adding more soda ash but it is still the same. It really thin my flux but it is still very thick, What should i do next.

Last i have use a hammer to break my crucible to collect the lead below. I dissolve it in nitric acid and i use salt to test if there is silver, i have recover 3grams++ of silver in my 50grams used borax that i try to smelt today i have jump and shout out loud as i am so happy but there is still lot of many small bead in the borax'' Million very small white bead''.i do not see any gold.

4metal can you give me your address as i wish you can help me out on this.
I wanted to try post you a little bit of my used borax for you to try and maybe after you have try you can teach me and understand me more clearly as i am not good in explaining in english.
Please give me a address that i can post to you if you have some free time to help me out..

Thanks and best regs
Franciz
 
I made a cake just like you told me except I changed a few things, and the cake came out bad. :cry:


Fluorospar is the thinning agent, adding charcoal, which acts as a reducing agent is unnecessary as the metal you are looking to collect is already in metallic form in the borax. Adding lead as a collector is not needed if the flux is thin enough. If it were needed, you would need considerably more than you have added in your test. You could substitute cryolite for fluorospar but I suspect it will be more costly and harder to find.

It is not necessary to send me some of this material to melt, I have told you exactly what I would do, I'm not holding out on you here. This is a common problem and the identical flux has been proposed by me to many people who have all enjoyed success. (as did the person in the post I linked above) I am confident that if you do this with the correct chemicals you will succeed.
 
If you recovered 3 grams of silver from a 50 gram sample, that's 6%. Your assay stated 0.01%.

So much for the validity of the sampling.

Get some fluorospar,mix the proportions I've told you, and you may be pleasantly surprised. If the yields meet your assay expectations you will recoup the cost of the flux ingredients, if the results exceed the assay, even better.
 
4metals said:
I made a cake just like you told me except I changed a few things, and the cake came out bad. :cry:


Fluorospar is the thinning agent, adding charcoal, which acts as a reducing agent is unnecessary as the metal you are looking to collect is already in metallic form in the borax. Adding lead as a collector is not needed if the flux is thin enough. If it were needed, you would need considerably more than you have added in your test. You could substitute cryolite for fluorospar but I suspect it will be more costly and harder to find.

It is not necessary to send me some of this material to melt, I have told you exactly what I would do, I'm not holding out on you here. This is a common problem and the identical flux has been proposed by me to many people who have all enjoyed success. (as did the person in the post I linked above) I am confident that if you do this with the correct chemicals you will succeed.


Dear 4metal,
I wanted to send you this material for you to melt not because i think you are holding me here.
I wanted to send to you for you to try this out for me because i am not experience and none of here us has done this b4, So i am thinking to send you some so that you can try and tell us more, I am willing to pay the shipping cost so you don need to pay anything, Do you keen to help me?
Please....
Thanks
 
4metals said:
If you recovered 3 grams of silver from a 50 gram sample, that's 6%. Your assay stated 0.01%.

So much for the validity of the sampling.

Get some fluorospar,mix the proportions I've told you, and you may be pleasantly surprised. If the yields meet your assay expectations you will recoup the cost of the flux ingredients, if the results exceed the assay, even better.

The biggest problem for me here is i cannot get fluorospar here i have called to many chemical supplier in the city to asked for it all of them tell me is impossible.
:(
 
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