What material could it be ?

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Bluebloomer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
140
Location
Netherlands
Hi all,

I found me a bundle of wire, about 30 ft or so but I just can't identify it.

I'm guessing it's about 20 gauge, in a large bundle and it's very flexible like copper wire or tin.
When I scrape it with a knife I do not see any copper, but it feels like there is a plastic coating around it.

Dropping a piece in nitric acid (53%) nothing happens, dropping a piece in HCL (37%) nothing happens and in both cases the wire is surrounded with small bubbles.

When I dropped a piece in a small batch of AR it suddently started to float, and after heating it in AR for several hours the wire is still surrounded by bubbles and nothing happens.
What could this material be ?

Flexible as tin / copper, it will not dissible in HCL, NHO3 or AR and the bundle on the photo has a weight of 124 gr. It has a darkish shiny gloss.

2015-02-28 13.46.44.jpg
2015-02-28 13.46.52.jpg
 
Does it have a coating? Burn it in a flame to see if it adds to it.
Does it melt easily and at what approximate temperature?
Is it soft?
Can you break it by just pulling it?
What's the density?
Have you checked the AR for signs of dissolved values?

So far all I can say is that you have a metal wire but it looks like solder.

Göran
 
It is definitely not fiber optic wire. That doesn't fold together that easily. Glass isn't very malleable.

Göran
 
Thanks for the quick replies !

Does it have a coating? Burn it in a flame to see if it adds to it.
- Coating burns away quickly, like in a flash
Does it melt easily and at what approximate temperature?
- Wire gets red hot but does not melt, it cools down right away so you can touch it after it was red hot
Is it soft?
- yes it is realy soft, flexible like tin with a bit of resistance when bending
Can you break it by just pulling it?
- after pulling with some force it will break
What's the density?
- No idea how to calculate that. The bundle fits in a 200 ML glas beaker, and weighs 124 gram
Have you checked the AR for signs of dissolved values?
Not yet, but the AR did get pretty yellow. I am making stannous as we speak. Need to dissovle tin first.

Made about 20 ml of AR and let it boild down to a syrup. The pieces of wire now turn red / black like it's a copper allay mix or something..
But after scraping it with a knife I did not see any signs of copper, it's like the material got this discoloration after the AR.

Fiber optic cable is a white plastic like material I thought ?
2015-02-28 14.57.02.jpg
2015-02-28 14.57.19.jpg

Taking a closer look it seems that the outside of the wire is a silvery metal acting like a shell, inside that shell are numerous smaller reddish strands.
My English isn't that perfect so I have no other way to describe it.
The AR has boiled down, so I added some clean HCL. It's a funny show now; all the little pieces of wire (about 1 cm) float to the top, and then fall to the bottom again, and they keep repeating that.
 
Did you burn off the coating before AR and the other acids?

To get the density, add water to that beaker to cover that bundle to 200 ml, then remove the bundle and see how much water it displaced. From that you know the volume and then with the weight you can calculate the density.

The bobbing up and down in the AR means that the metal is dissolving. The gas released makes the wire float and then it sinks again when the gas bubble is lost.

Göran
 
g_axelsson said:
Did you burn off the coating before AR and the other acids?

To get the density, add water to that beaker to cover that bundle to 200 ml, then remove the bundle and see how much water it displaced. From that you know the volume and then with the weight you can calculate the density.

The bobbing up and down in the AR means that the metal is dissolving. The gas released makes the wire float and then it sinks again when the gas bubble is lost.

Göran

Thank you for that information !I will get back to this as soon as I did what you described.

Looks like you put it in A/R with a coating on it.

Yes I did, because I have no idea what the material is, and it did not have an obvious "plastic" coating. So I just cut some pieces and made a tiny batch of HCL, Nitric and AR and figured the reaction would tell me what it is..

Perhaps it would be best to put a torch to the bundle (after getting the density) and then redo the tests.. ?
Still nobody with a possible thought about what it might be ?
 
A plastic coating is effectively stopping most acid attacks, at least slowing it down considerately. Burn off the coating and do the test with nitric and hydrochloric again and I would suspect a different reaction since...
Bluebloomer said:
Dropping a piece in nitric acid (53%) nothing happens, dropping a piece in HCL (37%) nothing happens and in both cases the wire is surrounded with small bubbles.
Based on that quote, the picture of the wire and the sediments in the aqua regia I would now guess that the wires are made from tin coated aluminum and covered in thin clear plastic, probably a degauss spool from an old CRT monitor.

Göran
 
g_axelsson said:
Based on that quote, the picture of the wire and the sediments in the aqua regia I would now guess that the wires are made from tin coated aluminum and covered in thin clear plastic, probably a degauss spool from an old CRT monitor.

Göran

That would be my guess as well - but just a guess

Kurt
 
g_axelsson said:
A plastic coating is effectively stopping most acid attacks, at least slowing it down considerately. Burn off the coating and do the test with nitric and hydrochloric again and I would suspect a different reaction since...
Bluebloomer said:
Dropping a piece in nitric acid (53%) nothing happens, dropping a piece in HCL (37%) nothing happens and in both cases the wire is surrounded with small bubbles.
Based on that quote, the picture of the wire and the sediments in the aqua regia I would now guess that the wires are made from tin coated aluminum and covered in thin clear plastic, probably a degauss spool from an old CRT monitor.

Göran
If it's Al, I doubt if it's coated with Sn or any other metal. Al is not easy to plate upon and there would be too many costly production steps involved for cheap wire like this.

It's probably just insulated bare Al wire. Whatever it is, it's dissolving. In the last photo, you can see that the wire inside has become much shorter. The solution can only enter through the ends of the insulation tubing. Al is dissolved and the gases produced fill the tubing, displacing any liquid in there. This makes the pieces float. The gases empty out and the pieces sink and fill with solution (or visa versa), and start dissolving again. Everything is repeated.
 
The Al wire used in degauss spools is usually soldered at the ends, but it can be some special solder or flux that works on aluminum. The precipitate could be from some alloying element too or a reaction from the aluminum.

Göran
 
I have seen laminated/enameled aluminum wire in the windings of some microwave oven transformers.
That usually has a coppery-red plastic coating though.
 
Hello all,

My apologies for my absence the last few weeks. I've been hit with the flue that turned into a respiratory infection, that turned into a pneumonia, so I was sick as a dog..
Feels like I've been sleeping for a month and finaly I am able to get behind my computer....

I took this bundle of wire out of the scrap metal bin, and yes they have been scrapping lots crt monitors, tv's and microwave ovens.
So it appears to be laminated/enameled aluminum wire from a microwave oven transformer.

The wire bundle isn't magnetic and sodium hydroxide (or in my case "kaligene" 30% caustic soda solution) does react strongly with in.

Too bad, was hoping for something better...
Gues I can add this bundle to my scrao aluminum bin ?

Thank you for all the replies and help, sorry again for not replying earlier.
 
Back
Top