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kd0cac

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
7
I've been looking into getting many metals out of recycling , 1st was gold because of cost .
I have not done any other processing , except mechanical of e-waste , separating boards , processors , test equipment , just classifying so far .
But also looking ahead to different ways to end up with bars of gold , silver etc.
Leaning toward using the least amount of chemicals , fuels - basically cost of materials , maybe more labor but I'm good at finding easier ways of mechanical separation , I use to do under water suction dredging for gold .
Back to the main question , watching videos , reading forums and doing the scrapping , I am seeing [ simple numbers just get the idea started ] lets say you chemically remove gold from what ever , like connector pins .
Well you end up with going through 100 lbs of pins and get 1 gram of gold .
OK here we are , that means we had 99++ lbs of copper under the gold , lets say at $2.50 per lb , we had $250 worth of copper , that is now in solution of some type , so reclaiming that is worth while .
Let alone some of the other substances , rather than just focusing on just the gold .
So what is needed to drop out the other goodies of our mixes ???

John
 
The point you are making is why much e scrap ends up in copper refineries, one point to consider though is not all pins are copper, not all e scrap is identical even for similar or the same applications.
Copper can be recovered from solution using cementation which in turn means dissolving usually iron or steel but if other metals are in between the two they will also cement out, chemistry can get very complicated chasing metals from solutions especially if you are after pure metals as a home refiner.
 
Some clarification , or repeat - the point being that most of what I have seen & read does not address anything but , lets say gold recovery , and not the majority of other metals that are available while recovering gold .
Many that watch a video will complain that someone spent $100 in there process to recover less than what was spent up front .
Well when the gold is a single digit of percent of what you started with , and copper [ as an example ] is 99++ and still worth $2.50 lb , you may recover some / maybe all of the cost spent .
Again all of this is in general to make a point and is not restricted to one process or metal .
Seems these days many are too focused on there idea , rather than just trying to understand what question is encompassing , getting specific can quickly lead in the wrong direction - wether its a specific metal , or process , lets say holistic - recycle everything , recover even the chemicals [ if possible ] by removing base metals etc.
I never mentioned purity , when I scrap all kinds of stuff nobody is getting out a spectrometer , again as an example aluminum is separated by cast , extruded at the street level , maybe upstream the refiners will determine alloy - even if I do at the street level - nobody is going to recognize / pay for it .
I am not referring to recreating the periodic chart / but recycling , then ideally if I cover my costs with the lesser base metals , keep the precious metals as cream to be refined later ?
 
I get what you are saying.

A couple things.

A lot of the time, if someone is doing pins or another material that is primarily copper with a light plating of gold, it runs through a sulfuric cell. Which will dissolve the gold at the anode and as it migrates away, it will precipitate back out of solution and end up on the bottom of the cell, leaving the base metal mostly whole.
-that is how a lot of the high base metal, low pm scrap should be done, that or cyanide leach (eco-goldex, whatever)

Some don't have a sulfuric cell set up, but they have a lot of gold bearing scrap that can be dissolved by nitric, so they nuke it and filter off the dust or foils that settle. The copper nitrate goes to the waste stream. Here is where copper can and will be recovered.

Treating the "waste" we create is a multi-step operation, where the acid initially goes to the "stock pot" where a surplus of copper is. The copper will cement out any PM's that did not get reduced by chemical means.(an air bubbler helps speed the process immensely)..after the acid is saturated with copper and no PM's are present, it is decanted to another bucket that has a surplus of iron. The iron will reduce copper and any other metal below it in the reactivity series of metals. So, depending on what metals/alloys you initially dissolved, that will determine the purity of this copper "cement". Some here dry and save this powder and melt it when enough had accumulated, some just threw it in large 55 gallon drums and never did anything with it.

The copper can and will be recovered eventually, but it's reuse is determined by how "clean" it is and if that particular person is set up to melt and pour copper bars.

I have seen a couple posts about it's reuse or sale. One where a guy sold it as red brass to a yard. But, personally, when I accumulate enough of it, I will run my copper through a copper cell to purify it further and recover any traces that may have made it down through the entire waste stream process.
 
Copper metal has a high-ish price (for a metal) which also means that some of it's chemical compounds have a relatively high value.

Basic Copper Carbonate can fetch around $3 to $3.5 per kg (source: googled some online sellers)

Maybe there are some sideways-views that could be explored to see if the dissolved metals can be converted into something other than just metal.

If the main acids need to be disposed of, there are chloride and nitrate salts that could be made from them, with the benefit that the product(s) could be purified to 99% by simple recrystallisation.

If you end up dropping everything from a chloride solution using Iron, Ferric Chloride can sell for $15 a kilo to amateur PCB makers ... and so on.

Definitely better to sell your waste than pay to dispose of it ;)
 
" Definitely better to sell your waste than pay to dispose of it ;) "

Yrs. ago a quote sent something like this " there is no waste , everything is someone resource "
Buckminster Fuller

I started doing recycling about 7 yrs. ago , through meeting another ham radio guy at a ham / surplus electronics shop , most of the stuff we saw was commercial test equipment & ham radio related stuff .
I started to make the mistake ;) of collecting goodie from inside of some test gear that might work for future ham gear , ran out space , there is never too much stuff / just not enough space .
A lot of test had lots of gold in then , again I used to do gold mining , so looked more into recycling , mostly when things are slow , which happens more now 63 disability , with lots of tools left from working .
One of my favorite you-tubers is successful engineer , one of the things he has been doing lately is finding the best way to recover gold from mostly electronics , by best , he is using as little chemicals / fuels and automating the separation process , most using gravity & motion , simple ideas like using a ball-mill to reduce to fine particles , then to separate magnetic from non , he would tape hard drive magnets to the outside of PVC pipe , then slowly pour powder inside PVC , magnet catch ferrous metals .
He wasn't happy with trying to gather very small particles , I suggested what we did gold mining , using mercury to amalgam to gold , then use a retort to separate the two and reuse the mercury without getting into surrounding atmosphere , mercury was commonly found with natural gold , so no cost an lots of uses .
My gold & silver is starting to take up space , so the need to look into processing .
Thanks for the info .
 
Kd a tip if I may.

Don't mess with Mercury in this day an age, there are other ways to do things and are described all over this forum. Mercury isn't the most pleasant of things to be messing with if you don't need to put yourself in harm's way.

Jon
 
Mercury is far less an issue than all the acids and other things , especially using a retort , you may not know what that is , its kinda like a still , you put your amalgam in the bottom container and use relatively low heat , the mercury evaporates and condenses in the top container , leaving the gold cleaned of any mercury , this is all in a sealed system - no mercury fumes get out .
 
Another quote..

"There are no sealed systems, just more or less leaky ones."

Mercury gives off vapors at room temperature so as soon as you open a container with mercury you releases some into the air. It is invisible in visual light but casts a shadow in UV light.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABbofwD3MI[/youtube]

Göran
 
Yes there can be issue's with mercury , but I was under the impression , this site had some info on doing all kinds of processing safely .
So it would appear , even with high post counts of the last couple of poster / fear mongers are ignorant of what a retort is , so do not do anything even in a lab with hoods or any other type of care taken to do anything .
I have seen many sources of info , videos etc. on dealing with this process , also know injured & dead miners , that did things in a stupid way - self-culling / cleaning .
Statements like there is no sealed container are just argumentative at best , and just wrong .
Unless there is some misunderstanding , I will have to set the internal - ignore list settings ;)
Thanks anyway .
 
That "fear monger" is a physicist...

One of the others, is a professional refiner...

Both are very well versed in the trade, and, since you came here looking for advice, wouldn't it be in your best interest to take their words to heart, and realise that they aren't trying to diminish you and your efforts, but save your life..?...

...sure, there is literally almost every method of gold processing posted on this forum. But some are far better than others.
Mercury, has invisible fumes and will poison you cumulatively.

Id rather work with acids all day.. Get it on my skin? Wash it off and neutralize it. Needs to be treated for waste? Turn it into salt water. ...sounds much better to me.

There are one or two members that go over their retort systems. I will let you have the joy of discovery on that one. Maybe search amalgam retort, or another clever phrase.
Best of luck.
 
Wow, a retort... never heard about that before. :lol:
http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Retort

I never had an expectation that I would change your mind. I'm writing for all the newbies that reads this thread thinking that mercury is a magic bullet and a good idea to use in refining.

Göran
 
Surely not a retort- what on earth is that strange equipment of which you speak Goran? :D

To the OP. Look you can put people on ignore for all I care. You asked for advice and you got it. It makes no difference to me if you choose to get precious about people trying to stop you doing something both completely unnecessary and dumb.
 
I can understand it is basically an open forum and to give warning info is all well & good .
Point is , using mercury is as dangerous as many other processes , and the need for safety - like fume hoods etc.
My replies are about making BS statements & attitudes like your danger is most important that it should never done , is excessive , its like saying using acid / combinations of should never be used even if in lab conditions using fume hoods .
To me mental ignore lists are just that , mental , so that just incase some calibration is needed , observing ongoing whatever is to confirm either way .
I have done a lot of research on this 35+ yrs. ago , so am not doing something in the dark .
It is about the only way to recover almost unseeable particles of gold while out in the middle of nowhere without a lab , and in a safe manner , if you think using a retort is unsafe give some details , not accusations ?
I like to understand things , not believe things , I try to refuse to respond in a believing manner - accusations without explanation .
Hopefully the idea , perspective is understood ?
 
Mercury processes aren't used much anymore for one simple reason : it kills, and hangs around forever.

Cyanide on the other hand decomposes in the natural world, still killing, just not hanging around forever.

Natural Selection has played a big part in the process of 'weeding out' those who thought Mercury was a great idea.

I should make a witty retort regarding the 'retort' comment, but best not :wink:
 
My thoughts, mercury played a major role in the recovery of gold in our history it had its place in our past history, although elemental mercury can be naturally found in some rivers or mountains, many of our rivers were polluted with tons of mercury used to catch fine gold. Today we have better methods and tools to use, and using mercury to recover gold is just plain foolishness, even if done properly. I have seen miners who try to use mercury and know nothing about its proper use, or safety measures, they know enough to harm themselves and others.

There may be times where we will need to use a retort or may have to deal with mercury when refining, dental gold comes to mind.

Using mercury to recover and refine gold (or silver) today is just foolishness as far as I am concerned. Does it work? Yes if done properly. Is it safe? No. Can dangers be somewhat minimized? Yes if you are educated in its proper use, and have an understanding of the dangers and proper ways to avoid them. Are there much better methods of mining today, which work better and are safer? Yes.

Using mercury to recover gold from electronic scrap is just a bad idea at best ( I would normally call it a stupid idea).

kd0cac, I believe after you gain more education in this field you too will feel, as we do about how mercury has no place in recovery and refining in modern times.
 
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