Risks and safety issues (my workshop and hood)

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saadat68

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
482
Hi
I rent a workshop for refining and want to start my business. I want refine silver and I will use max 2 liter Nitric acid per day. I have and vacuum scrubber and a ventilator fume hood.
But I made a mistake! I think my workshop isn't suitable for my work. I payed all of my money for it and must work here for 1 year. :oops:

http://uupload.ir/files/ibgj_444j42.jpg

http://uupload.ir/files/b41w_565686.jpg

http://uupload.ir/files/mg7v_2541.jpg

I have some questions. :idea:

1- Is there any risks and safety issues for houses and if yes what risks? (distance between my workshop and houses is 42 feet)

2- The sidewalk (section 1) is very very solitude and I decide work with acid in nights when anybody was there. but if someone walk here for example for 30 seconds when I work with my hood, Do fumes harm him ?

3- How I can work here without harm to anybody

Thanks
 
Is your exhaust pipe from the hood going up through the roof or out through a wall? Ideally you want to get the fumes coming out as high as possible above the roof.

Are you using a fume scrubber? The nitric acid you are using, 2 liters a day, will produce a noticeable odor in the alleyway. And with neighbors so close you have no choice but to scrub your fumes from the reaction. Please post pictures of your vacuum scrubber.

What are the environmental parameters in your area? I just checked and your location is listed as earth. Personally I do not care where you live or are operating, and we here on the forum will help all of our members regardless of where they are from, but earth is a bit vague and I am much less inclined to help a wise ass.
 
Your pictures show your exhaust output aimed directly at the windows of the houses. And it is right next to your air handling unit.

The people in the houses will smell your out gassing unless you scrub it very clean. Even then it may still have an odor.

Also being so close to your own air handling unit will cause the unit to rust and/or intake some of your own exhaust back into your shop. If your air unit is so designed to bring in fresh air, most are.
 
4metals said:
Is your exhaust pipe from the hood going up through the roof or out through a wall? Ideally you want to get the fumes coming out as high as possible above the roof.

Are you using a fume scrubber? The nitric acid you are using, 2 liters a day, will produce a noticeable odor in the alleyway. And with neighbors so close you have no choice but to scrub your fumes from the reaction. Please post pictures of your vacuum scrubber.

What are the environmental parameters in your area? I just checked and your location is listed as earth. Personally I do not care where you live or are operating, and we here on the forum will help all of our members regardless of where they are from, but earth is a bit vague and I am much less inclined to help a wise ass.

Hi
Thanks
Is your exhaust pipe from the hood going up through the roof or out through a wall?
through a wall!

Yes I use vacuum scrubber but now I can not post pictures because I disassembly it. It has 3 columns with 3 CFM pump. I use this design:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=31662&t=1

I use this design for my hood with any additional scrubber
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=19965

I don't worry about odor. my worry is about safety and don't want harm to anyone

I live in Iran! Here there is no environmental parameters!

Adding nitric acid very slowly can solve problems ?
 
rickbb said:
Your pictures show your exhaust output aimed directly at the windows of the houses. And it is right next to your air handling unit.

The people in the houses will smell your out gassing unless you scrub it very clean. Even then it may still have an odor.

Also being so close to your own air handling unit will cause the unit to rust and/or intake some of your own exhaust back into your shop. If your air unit is so designed to bring in fresh air, most are.

Thanks
You speak about odor but I don't think it is big problem for me because windows of houses are close
It is safe ? May I harm to people that live there?
About air handling unit, I never use it and I will close all of my window and around the pipes and also add a exhust fan
 
saadat, I've moved your thread to the Safety section as you asked. I agree this is a better place for it.

If I were in your situation, I would not process there unless you invest in a proper scrubber for your fumes. By proper, I don't mean something that you build. I don't mean to offend you by that, but I've seen your many drawings and you don't understand enough to be designing systems to scrub the quantities you're talking about.

If you're stuck where you are, hire someone to design/build a system for you, or find somewhere else to process and use that location for something different.

Dave
 
FrugalRefiner said:
saadat, I've moved your thread to the Safety section as you asked. I agree this is a better place for it.

If I were in your situation, I would not process there unless you invest in a proper scrubber for your fumes. By proper, I don't mean something that you build. I don't mean to offend you by that, but I've seen your many drawings and you don't understand enough to be designing systems to scrub the quantities you're talking about.

If you're stuck where you are, hire someone to design/build a system for you, or find somewhere else to process and use that location for something different.

Dave

Hi Dave
Thanks for move my thread
I understand how to make them and I made them. trust me :lol:
I make a good scrubber. But I must assemble it. I also make a good hood and it works
I will add some pictures from my hood and scrubber

my scrubber has 3 column (each 80 cm) and 3 CFM vacuum pump

Do you say if I have a scrubber like this :
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=31662&t=1

I can work there without safety problem ?
 
The exhaust from your hood needs to be directed upwards. Ideally your pipe will end a minimum of 3 meters above your roof. If you pump the fumes directly into the alley way you will have very little air exchange and you will create the worst of all possible scenario's as far as odors are concerned. The discharge from your hood and scrubber needs to be propelled as high as possible from your blower, this means no rain cap that will block flow. I do not know how much rain you get in Iran but if it is substantial, there are devices you can make of pipe which prevent all rainfall coming down at even a slight angle from going down the pipe. Rain almost never comes straight down. Ideally refiners make a roof penetration and the pipe goes straight up.

When it comes to refining most people do not want everybody around them knowing what they do. That is usually for security purposes. If you produce a distinct odor that most will notice, you will have people asking questions. Nobody I know that refines likes to answer too many questions.

The scrubber you made will likely help to eliminate your fume issues. You need to realize that the charge of chemistry in each chamber will only treat so much NOx depending on the size of each chamber, what chemicals you put in each chamber, and the CFM of airflow through the cylinders. The trick for you will be to maintain the levels of chemicals you add to each chamber to keep the scrubber performing. What chemicals are you using in each chamber? What are you refining? Are you using Aqua regia, or doing Nitric Dissolves? What vessels are you digesting in and how are you assuring the exhaust is scrubbed?
 
OK, Thanks
So I must make a hole in roof! it made of cement and concrete. Also I don't know workshop owner let me to drill roof!

But I can not ad 3 meters pipe on the roof. max can add 1 meter.it is very unusual there and as you said it is not good for security purposes :shock:

And about last questions. I have all the answers. I got them before with search in forum 8)

Hope it be last problem and I can solve it and start my bussines
 
If you have people up on your roof 1 meter is right under their noses. I know from India that people often congregate on the rooftops. If you blow straight out horizontally into the alley way, the heavier than air fumes will fall into the dead air space in the alley. You need height to disperse any fumes in the most freely circulating air, this is always higher up. If you're saying a stack above the roof is not do-able, or even through the side wall and then up the 3 meters above the roof, then you will be dealing with odor issues. This says nothing of buildings close by that are taller than yours, and what is downwind from the prevailing breeze? All of these things matter. From the pictures we can see your building is not taller than the ones alongside of it and that is why height is good. Actually, the more the better.

Only you know the pro's and con's in the neighborhood where you are doing this, and I will only recommend to you what I know works in practice. The choice, and the responsibility for the outcome, is yours.
 
Hi @ Saadat68, have you perhaps considered changing your chemical formula using Hcl and hydrogen peroxide for the wash and Hcl and bleach for the dissolve? Its not as aggressive as nitric but takes longer.
IMO you will then have less fume to contend with.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks
Good idea but I prefer work with nitric because I want to add PC boards to my business
 
saadat68 said:
Good idea but I prefer work with nitric because I want to add PC boards to my business

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Has anyone on this forum ever recommended using nitric acid for PC boards??????


:shock: :shock: :shock:
 
glorycloud said:
saadat68 said:
Good idea but I prefer work with nitric because I want to add PC boards to my business

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Has anyone on this forum ever recommended using nitric acid for PC boards??????


:shock: :shock: :shock:

No AR used but I mean must find a right way that solve my problem
Also I don't think HCL can digest silver
Yesterday I added a hole in roof 8)
 
There is no problem :D
I will add some pictures from my hood soon
I add 2 meter pipe on the roof ( I can add 3 meter but it is very tall and unusual and it will draw attention that I don't want it)
 
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