acid fumes or smelting fumes

i am going to start smelting process of mix stuff,saperated ics & mlccs from motherboards and complete mobile boards
idea is here
pyrolising ( trying a setup to get fuel from pyrolising complete mobileboards)
so pyrolising can convert toxic fumes in to fuel
next step is smelting with flux. here is no post on forum that discuss smelting fumes, controling them, or scrubbing them, instead of lead
next idea is to get a molten metal with copper or silver then treat in copper or silver cell,
i want to know cells will be fume less? batter to treat with large amount of acids that produce complicated fumes in respect of handling, and need more bigger setups i.e fume hood, scrubbers

All fumes are dangerous and need to be vented out/away from your, (and everyone else's), lungs.

Setup your work space accordingly.

yees. allfumes are dangrous. but here is no discussion on smelting fumes produce by burning flux and metals

and no proper setup guide for smelting process

ashir said:

and no proper setup guide for smelting process

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You're looking for an A to Z guide?

at least controling on smelting fumes.
i searched forum, i can not get any idea to scrub smelting gases in a local homemade setup.

There is information on the forum of ways to control fumes and the safety, but the information here is more discussed on the level of the small-scale refiner.

Although the forum has a good safety section it should not be your only source of information on the subject, as we may cover some aspects we cannot discuss them all.

For industrial control of setting up and running a plant with the capacities of scrubbing, bag filters, electrostatic precipitators, pyro-hydrolysis reactors and so on you will need study from more than just reading posts of the forum or asking members to walk you through it, it would be easier to hire someone to consult you in building an industrial plant, this is not a homemade project,(although it can be scaled down), you will need a lot of education in many different areas to even dream of setting up a refinery on an industrial scale, you will need deep pockets with a lot of spare money to spend. you will also need to pay many more consultants with expertise in the other different fields of the operation such as the chemistry ...

I feel you are trying to get started with your dream without any education in the field you are trying to scale up industrially. I say you will fail before you even begin --because you are going about it wrong, even if you have money to waste, without at least minimal education and understanding of at least the basic principles of the scope of the project.

Your gold fever is slowing you down, you want to finance, build and run an industrial refining operation without the knowledge of hardly anything about it.

We do not get gold by beating on rocks blindly, We use education and knowledge to find and recover the gold from rock.

Looking blindly for gold in rocks is useless and a waste of time and resources (gold fever).
Being educated where to find gold in rocks can be priceless (gold fever under control).

The education is what you need, along with the financial backing.

The education takes a long time and is a lot of work.
With education, you can begin very small scale, and scale up with your knowledge in the field.

Before taking this operation to an industrial scale, you will need to spend a lot of time educating yourself (even if you hire out work to consultants and pay big money).

Using your education and working on a very small scale while educating yourself will take time, you can better see what can be done to scale up (without the education you are just ignorantly beating on rocks looking for gold).

My suggestion is to take some medicine for gold fever (education), forget about getting large bars of gold, or building an industrial plant, or forget about beating blindly beating on every rock you see -- looking to get rich on gold, educate yourself, start out just learning about it, then use what you learn to start out with small-scale experiments to further your education, then using that education to scale up, or to gain enough understanding to even decide when and how to get started industrially.

Forum members cannot educate you.
Asking a million questions may get correct answers to most of those questions -- but it will not give you much of any education on the subject, it would only lead to the next batch of another million questions and many more problems to solve, every questioned answered brings up many more questions, each unanswered question can come with many more problems.

Forum members can be helpful to your study, answering a question when you get stumped or may not understand what your studying, but they cannot answer all of your questions and consult you in building, financing and successfully running the plant, or teach you how to recover and refine safely and profitably.

thanks butcher
you teach me one more thing, gold fever have a madicine = study!
ok as you describe is really a one way to start a refining plant. but it was my mistake that i not explain my scale of refining
i want process a few kg of complete mobile boards and few kg of old motherboards.
i buy scrap from yards and shops. keep old studf for processing( only p1 and p2, and old mobiles)
i am also doing experiment with small scale smelting process.
you are right, here i can get ideas only, a raised finger towards a batter way!
i do not want see fumes going in air even in a small experiment,
so i ask this bacause may be i can get a way of honemade stup to controle fumes when dealing with a 4 to 5 kg material.
i like kajvanb idea of pyrolises to use a setup of making fuel with pyrolising, and i am trying this, not to get fuel but i did this because i feel its a natural way to controle many harmful fumes of burning plastic

i am assure now you can give me more reletive guide ! thanks again

Keep studying, as you do it will open up many things to you, you may find different methods to reach your goals, you will gain more understanding of the dangers involved, and how to minimize these dangers...

I am not trying to discourage you, you could build some of the equipment, and get started without spending a fortune.

thanks. once i was thinking to use lead as collecter.
change plan, concentrate on copper cell
again changing plan, want to use nitric.
but every process own an untold story,
i am planing to melt ashes with flux. but can not get a way to oxidise or reduce the base metals as lead works in cupalation to absorb base metals. every where is a questin mark

And you will find your question marks growing as you understand more, You will find your plans can change as you gain more knowledge of the different processes.

I would not get fixed on any one plan or idea at this stage, I would spend more of time understanding the different processes, and methods...

Let the plan develop with your understanding.

yes! i was searching on a way that i deserve
i wanttry something like this
pyrolise( ics+mlccs), incinirate, crush, megnatic saperation, use flux ( borax, soda ash, florspar)
remelt with an oxidiser/ nitrate
use nitric
use AR
i want improvement in this circumstances because i only can arrange such process.
copper cell( alot of formulas with diffrent practices) so need alot experiments so it will take months.
silver cell( again tricky to handle)
................... so i want your views or your experience on above process!

ashir said:

so need alot experiments so it will take months.

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Think more in terms of years and you won't be disappointed.

Dave

As for all the experiments, you must look at them as educational AND fun. There is nothing like doing a job, or learning a job, that you love to do. And by fun I do not mean reckless. One of the most fun things for me was experiencing the copper cell experiments I did. I do use a better power supply these days, but still often work copper in 1 gallon cells, because it seems to be more fun than my three gallon cells. As a side note, I have become pretty good at copper plating trinkets and cheap jewelry as well. One thing leads to another and then another, and before you know it, it starts to become easier and easier.

butcher said:

I would not get fixed on any one plan or idea at this stage, I would spend more of time understanding the different processes, and methods...

Click to expand...

Very true words, and sage advice to follow. Slow down, enjoy the journey and the rest will become a lot easier to learn. There is more than one way to do things so learn as many as you can. It is like trying to follow a known process without one of the chemicals. If you studied well, you will know another chemical to replace the one you don't have. (such as using sodium nitrate to substitute for potassium nitrate at times) Take a deep breath and be happy that you have a place such as this to learn from. It will lead you as far as you are willing to reach for.

sorry frugaRefiner " years" sounds solid!
and how are you shark! i was recomended by some experts to read your posts on copper cell, i see someone writing that you was in some health issues( sorry i do not look at posting date)
hope you are fine!
copper cell is a nice way to treat with copper enriched dore.
but i am on a middle step to saperate ics and mlccs and process them, with that, i am reading about copper cell and i will move forward ( process whole bords)when i will get the basic experience of cell.
the above mention process was my idea for two reasons
1 not want use lead( as its cheap though) and its substitute ( bismuth) is expensive
2 getting practice and experience in smelting till i run a copper cell.
3 i am looking for thi because i can get chamicals easily used in this mentioned process. i want expert ideas that if i can do this? or what batter i can do in smelting with mentioned chamicals! thanks

Yes, I have had and still have some serious health issues. For the most part I have been able to work around them and it has been part of my experiences in refining. I work with a loss of about 50% use in my left arm now. Three years ago it was my right arm and leg. I struggle very hard to use proper wording for chemical abbreviations these days such Hcl, Cl and others, so I often spell the names out in full because I find it easier to remember. Such can be life after having a few strokes. But the thing for me is, I still found a way to do the thing I wanted to do, small scale refining. Doing a search of my user name now you will find very few places where I have had to ask how to do something, because I had the time to sit and read for hours, sometimes days at a time. I still have a million questions, and I will find the answers in time. If it becomes necessary I will ask a question here and there, most often to be sure I am understanding something correctly more than trying to learn it.

One step at a time is how you complete a journey of a thousand miles.

You have been consistent in saying "mlcc's and phone boards". There is your first two steps. Pick one, and target it to study for a while. Get an understanding of it then, study on the other one. Then you can decide which one to practice on(your next step). The only help I can give you in smelting is my copper melting and small cell. I downsized almost everything from 4metals post on copper cells to fit my needs. I read a few old books on the subject as well, many can be found on archive.org for free. I just had to figure out a way to downscale those things to fit my goals.

Form yourself a plan, step by step, bring it back and allow some of the experts to weigh in with advice on how to fine tune it to accomplish what your looking to do. I find it works much better to bring a plan to start with rather than ask for a plan. It allows me to work with what I have, or have access to to get my job done with minimal costs. It also lets those experts give you advice based on the knowledge you can show of your learning. It proves to them your really trying on your own. Remember also that most of the people offering you help work other jobs as well, so at times it may take a bit longer for them get back with you.

if you believe in metaphysics then i may have a little help for your health
and thanks for the port to find some old stuff .i read 4metal post on copper cell. but i need more to make a copper cell at home, time consuming in process. many complications . but i want try this once!
and yes mlccs and whole boards are 2 steps
i want start with ic's
then mlccs
then whole boards.
in 3 saperate steps. in start i was looking for a process to deal combine with ic and mlcc. i was thinking silver in mlcc will work as collecter metal. but later i decided to process saperate. now i still need to see some one making his cell.

What type power supply do you have? If you have an adjustable supply it will be much easier to work with. If you plan to use a computer power supply, please do not expect very much for good results. They are just to much work and takes a lot of time for very small results. At a minimum you need one similar to this, it runs 30 volt and 10 amps. I usually use this one for silver cells, but switch it out for copper sometimes.



This will get you started and I will try to do a small thread on building a cell in a 1 gallon plastic container. Keep in mind, I do this in a small way, results come second, so I am in no hurry to get money from it.

yes i have one . not as yours but look suitable fir cell

i see this in a yard last year. i chek it and it was working fine. so i buy it in 1 dollar. now i am using it in my mobile repairing shop.
i really need to see , a copper cell made by a profassional.
i will wait for your post as well as your guide here for cell,
one more question to you
a coal furnance with blower wil work for smelting ? i did try this once to melt copper. copper was melted but not become fluid( without flux)
later i set up a waste oil burner use with coal

If I am seeing it right, you power supply is only one amp. It will be way to small do anything with working on copper. I use a ten amp, and set things up to try and not use more than six amps just to reduce the stress on it.

As for a professional cell setup, they can be found all over the internet. The small ones I have seen working run on 500 watt power supply per cell. You would need to run about 25 to 40 pound copper slabs to even start to make them work efficiently. The best video's I have seen from an individual is being used to produce copper from ores and are from Malaysia. They are small and about as big I would ever plan on running myself. Look up the name Safrizal Rizal on YouTube, he has some very interesting videos showing what I call small cells. What I do I would term as micro cells.

The melting/smelting aspect is another subject. The purpose behind the cell I will setup and show here is a good way to learn how they operate. I won't be going into a lot of detail on operating them, but I will try to get you far enough along to start studying a working version that can produce some small values. I haven't used one for a few months now as I have been working on other things. It will take a bit of time to get everything situated as we are in a holiday season here.

Keep studying, always keep studying.