My Proposed Gold Finger Plan

Hi Everyone, joined the forums couple days ago, been reading all I can and learning from everyone, thanks for the great resource! I'm interested in starting refining as a hobby right now (with the hope of making a little bit of money but more of using this hobby as a way to save money for the future in gold). I have downloaded Hoak's pdf and have started reading, read most of the safety forum, and have watched most of Steve's video's from his site.

I have approx. 2 lbs of gold fingers that I want to start with (Again i'm in no hurry so i want to make sure i have my process as documented as possible

before I start as I don't want to injure myself or create a mess by mixing chemicals and not fully understand what the plan is).

My plan right now is as follows, if I could get some comments and answers to some of my questions.

1) Place some of the fingers to be recovered in a 500ML beaker and cover with 34% muriatic acid (keeping track of how many ml's are added). Then add 3% hydrogen peroxide in a 2 to 1 ratio of HCL to H202. Heat with a heat gun and let everything dissolve.

2) Filter the solution to catch all of the foils.

At this point, hopefully all of the base metals are gone, nickle, zinc, copper, so the foils are just gold? What is the best container to store the solution (HCLCU2?) in ? There is no need to test this solution with Stannous Cloride as there can't be any gold that was dissolved, correct?

3) Place some of the gold foils in 200ML beaker. Cover foils again with muriatic acid. Add Clorox bleach (5%) (how much clorox do I add? Or add a little bit and wait for all foils to dissolve). Add some heat if needed.

Once I add the clorox, chlorine gases will start to form so i'll be doing this outside. (I live on a 10 acre parcel with my nearest neighbor 1500' away). Once this is complete, should I filter this solution again?

At this point, i'll test the solution with the stannous cloride. I'll then add SMB to precipitate the gold. When you add the SMB, is there more chlorine gas created? or just sulfer dioxide?

Can I store the Auric Cloride and precipitate it all at the same time? or better to do it in smaller batches? Once all the gold settles out, how do you get it out of the solution easy? Run it through a filter? will the gold then come off of the filter easy? You can/should rinse the gold with distilled water, correct?

Last question for now, the final solution after I precipitate the gold out of it, do I neutralize this before I store it? Again what is the best container for storing this for future disposal?

Thanks for any help I get.

Ken

Hi Everyone, joined the forums couple days ago, been reading all I can and learning from everyone, thanks for the great resource! I'm interested in starting refining as a hobby right now (with the hope of making a little bit of money but more of using this hobby as a way to save money for the future in gold). I have downloaded Hoke's pdf and have started reading, read most of the safety forum, and have watched most of Steve's video's from his site.

Great I am glad you’re studying, did you see the bucket with holes drilled in the bottom that sits in a slightly larger bucket used to dissolve fingers in, it acts as a strainer.

1) Place some of the fingers to be recovered in a 500ML beaker and cover with 34% muriatic acid (keeping track of how many ml are added). Then add 3% hydrogen peroxide in a 2 to 1 ratio of HCl to H202. Heat with a heat gun and let everything dissolve.

You can use many types of vessels, plastic buckets, pickle jar…
Many ways to give a little heat, a big box with a light bulb is one.


2) Filter the solution to catch all of the foils.

Or let them settle and decant solutions, no gold trapped in papers.

At this point, hopefully all of the base metals are gone, nickel, zinc, copper, so the foils are just gold?

If you trim the card edges without solder, copper and traces of nickel are all that you will be dissolving from your gold foils.


What is the best container to store the solution (HCLCU2?) in? There is no need to test this solution with Stannous Chloride as there can't be any gold that was dissolved, correct?

Correct if you do not use too strong of hydrogen peroxide, or over use it, plastic jugs the acid or bleach come in will work for storage, plastic five gallon buckets with lids, or even glass bottles.


3) Place some of the gold foils in 200ML beaker. Cover foils again with muriatic acid. Add Clorox bleach (5%) (How much Clorox do I add? Or add a little bit and wait for all foils to dissolve). Add some heat if needed.

Add the NaClO sodium hypochlorite (Clorox bleach) a little at a time, you are generating chlorine gas, we want to keep solution acidic (bleach is basic and will raise pH of the acid) so do not add over half as much bleach as you have acid (without checking pH or adding more HCl acid).

Once I add the Clorox, chlorine gases will start to form so I'll be doing this outside. (I live on a 10 acre parcel with my nearest neighbor 1500' away). Once this is complete, should I filter this solution again?

Rid free chlorine from solution sitting in hot sun or heating to drive off chlorine gas. Letting solution sit and settle until the solution clears of the murky color, and insoluble material settle out, then decant solution from insoluble powder, and filter solution.

At this point, I'll test the solution with the stannous chloride. I'll then add SMB to precipitate the gold. When you add the SMB, is there more chlorine gas created? Or just sulfur dioxide?

If free chlorine some may evolve, but you are not likely to smell it, the SMB will create sulfur dioxide gas you will smell, also take stannous chloride test to determine if all of the gold has precipitated from solution (after adding SMB and stirring well).

Can I store the Auric Chloride and precipitate it all at the same time?

Can precipitate gold as one batch. Why do you wish to store it?

Once all the gold settles out, how do you get it out of the solution easy? Run it through a filter? Will the gold then come off of the filter easy? You can/should rinse the gold with distilled water, correct?

Settle and decant (pour off liquid, or suction it out with suction bulb, or siphon off liquids. Filter paper traps gold.

See Harold gold washing technique, getting gold pure and shinny.

Last question for now, the final solution after I precipitate the gold out of it, do I neutralize this before I store it? Again what is the best container for storing this for future disposal?

All of the solutions besides the original copper II chloride (acid peroxide) solution, should be treated for waste, these contain poisonous metals.
Read dealing with waste in the safety section.

Ken, Good thing you are not in a hurry a little more study can help you when you begin, but I do have to commend you on what a good job you are doing so far, your are getting a good understanding before you jump, this will help you go along a lot smoother later.

Thanks for your response Butcher! See my responses in red in line.

butcher said:

Hi Everyone, joined the forums couple days ago, been reading all I can and learning from everyone, thanks for the great resource! I'm interested in starting refining as a hobby right now (with the hope of making a little bit of money but more of using this hobby as a way to save money for the future in gold). I have downloaded Hoke's pdf and have started reading, read most of the safety forum, and have watched most of Steve's video's from his site.

Great I am glad you’re studying, did you see the bucket with holes drilled in the bottom that sits in a slightly larger bucket used to dissolve fingers in, it acts as a strainer.

Yes I saw the bucket but was wondering if the gold foils would go out the holes?

1) Place some of the fingers to be recovered in a 500ML beaker and cover with 34% muriatic acid (keeping track of how many ml are added). Then add 3% hydrogen peroxide in a 2 to 1 ratio of HCl to H202. Heat with a heat gun and let everything dissolve.

You can use many types of vessels, plastic buckets, pickle jar…
Many ways to give a little heat, a big box with a light bulb is one.


2) Filter the solution to catch all of the foils.

Or let them settle and decant solutions, no gold trapped in papers.

At this point, hopefully all of the base metals are gone, nickel, zinc, copper, so the foils are just gold?

If you trim the card edges without solder, copper and traces of nickel are all that you will be dissolving from your gold foils.


What is the best container to store the solution (HCLCU2?) in? There is no need to test this solution with Stannous Chloride as there can't be any gold that was dissolved, correct?

Correct if you do not use too strong of hydrogen peroxide, or over use it, plastic jugs the acid or bleach come in will work for storage, plastic five gallon buckets with lids, or even glass bottles.


3) Place some of the gold foils in 200ML beaker. Cover foils again with muriatic acid. Add Clorox bleach (5%) (How much Clorox do I add? Or add a little bit and wait for all foils to dissolve). Add some heat if needed.

Add the NaClO sodium hypochlorite (Clorox bleach) a little at a time, you are generating chlorine gas, we want to keep solution acidic (bleach is basic and will raise pH of the acid) so do not add over half as much bleach as you have acid (without checking pH or adding more HCl acid).

Once I add the Clorox, chlorine gases will start to form so I'll be doing this outside. (I live on a 10 acre parcel with my nearest neighbor 1500' away). Once this is complete, should I filter this solution again?

Rid free chlorine from solution sitting in hot sun or heating to drive off chlorine gas. Letting solution sit and settle until the solution clears of the murky color, and insoluble material settle out, then decant solution from insoluble powder, and filter solution.

What is the insoluble material you mention? Why decant solution and then filter? Can't you just filter because the insoluble powder is garbage anyways? and your gold solution will go through filter?

At this point, I'll test the solution with the stannous chloride. I'll then add SMB to precipitate the gold. When you add the SMB, is there more chlorine gas created? Or just sulfur dioxide?

If free chlorine some may evolve, but you are not likely to smell it, the SMB will create sulfur dioxide gas you will smell, also take stannous chloride test to determine if all of the gold has precipitated from solution (after adding SMB and stirring well).

Ok so when I think all the gold as settled to the bottom, do another stannous test using a drop of the liquid, the gold settled at the bottom won't interfere with the test? i'm guessing only dissolved gold will be shown?

Can I store the Auric Chloride and precipitate it all at the same time?

Can precipitate gold as one batch. Why do you wish to store it?


Was just thinking of doing all my refining in phases, so bring all of my batches through the first few steps, and if I have to stop and not have enough time to finish, etc. I could leave the solution and precipitate it in a day or two later

Once all the gold settles out, how do you get it out of the solution easy? Run it through a filter? Will the gold then come off of the filter easy? You can/should rinse the gold with distilled water, correct?

Settle and decant (pour off liquid, or suction it out with suction bulb, or siphon off liquids. Filter paper traps gold.

See Harold gold washing technique, getting gold pure and shinny.


Wow Harold's method seems to be more work the second time around then the first! Can I save my refined gold power (one time) in a jar and once I have a bunch of it, follow Harold's method and refine all of it a second time together?

Last question for now, the final solution after I precipitate the gold out of it, do I neutralize this before I store it? Again what is the best container for storing this for future disposal?

All of the solutions besides the original copper II chloride (acid peroxide) solution, should be treated for waste, these contain poisonous metals.
Read dealing with waste in the safety section.


Ok so what do I do with the original acid peroxide solution containing the copper? Throw a piece of Iron in it and will the copper stick to the iron? Then can I just dump out solution ?

Ken, Good thing you are not in a hurry a little more study can help you when you begin, but I do have to commend you on what a good job you are doing so far, your are getting a good understanding before you jump, this will help you go along a lot smoother later.

Click to expand...

Again thanks for your time Butcher!

Yes I saw the bucket but was wondering if the gold foils would go out the holes?

Yes the foils fine gold powder, and some solder mask epoxies and solution will go through the holes, but the big parts like the strips of fiberglass ill not, after you use Laser Steve’s simple trick the bucket you will see how well the device works.

What is the insoluble material you mention? Why decant solution and then filter? Can't you just filter because the insoluble powder is garbage anyways? And your gold solution will go through filter?

The insoluble material can clog filters. Fine metal salts can go through filters. Letting solutions that are murky settle will help to remove insoluble from your solution. The insoluble material in this case could be salt, copper chloride, solder mask, possibly lead chloride, and even undissolved gold.
As you get more experience in refining you will see why letting every thing settle from solution (sometimes for days), and filtering just the clear colored liquid gives better results with less troubles.

Ok so when I think all the gold as settled to the bottom, do another stannous test using a drop of the liquid, the gold settled at the bottom won't interfere with the test? i'm guessing only dissolved gold will be shown?

Yes you have the idea, even the reduced fine brown gold powder floating is the solution with stirring, and you had the brown powder in your test, the reduced gold powder gold would not show up as a positive in the stannous chloride test, the brown gold is reduced to metal, and will not test for gold, the reason why is because of how stannous chloride works, it reduces the gold to metal colloids giving the violet color, gold that is already reduced will not show up in the test because it is already reduced to metal, so the stannous cannot reduce it to a colloid.

Stannous chloride does not test for gold metal, even if it is a fine powder like the brown powder of gold even if in solution, stannous chloride must be able to reduce the gold to metal, as a colloidal gold, so the gold must be oxidized in solution before the stannous chloride can detect it in solution.

Note:
Oxidation, oxidized metal is the metals atom with missing electrons (in this case of gold dissolved into the yellow solution).

Reduction is the gold atoms gaining back electrons and changing back to a metal (in this case fine brown powders of gold metal. Or with the violet color of colloid of gold metal in solution that will not settle from solution as in the stannous chloride test.

Oxidize to take electrons, or missing electrons.
Reduce to gain electrons or reduced to have all of its electrons (reduced back to the elemental metal)

Was just thinking of doing all my refining in phases, so bring all of my batches through the first few steps, and if I have to stop and not have enough time to finish, etc. I could leave the solution and precipitate it in a day or two later

I see no problem there.
The larger the batch (like when precipitating the less loss)
Filtering can trap values in paper depending on what your filtering.
You can do some things in small batches, and then add batches together to minimize loss in certain processes.

Wow Harold's method seems to be more work the second time around then the first! Can I save my refined gold power (one time) in a jar and once I have a bunch of it, follow Harold's method and refine all of it a second time together?

Actually you will find it very little work, after you do it.
Yes saving up small batches of gold powders, and processing it in a lager batch is a very good method, less loss, I do this a lot, I do not let the powders dry, I keep them wet with a little HCl, this will make them easier to wash later, dried salts of metals can get harder to re-dissolve (base metals, or silver chloride), or wash from your gold, if you let the gold powders dry out.

Ok so what do I do with the original acid peroxide solution containing the copper? Throw a piece of Iron in it and will the copper stick to the iron? Then can I just dump out solution?

The original copper II chloride solution (acid peroxide), can be rejuvenated and reused to leach more copper from gold, saving you chemicals later, read the document on Laser Steve’s web site.

Or it can be treated for waste if you are not going to do this any more, read the dealing with waste in the safety section.

The copper from solution is replaced by iron in solution, the copper will cement out of the liquid (yes some may plate to the iron, but the bulk of copper will be found in the bottom of your container as copper reddish metal powders, they may turn brown sometimes, if exposed to air these copper powders will turn green and form copper carbonates and oxides.

The solution then is an acidic iron chloride solution loaded with other poisonous base metal chloride salts, (or could be metal salts of other metals and acids you used in your process, chlorides, sulfates, carbonates. Nitrates…

Bringing the pH to 9, will precipitate most of the metals to form a metal hydroxide sludge which will settle to the bottom of the bucket, leaving you with a hydroxide solution with very few metals (soluble as hydroxides), now bring the pH back to 7 gives you a neutral salt water solution, with very little to almost no metal left in solution (at least all of the dangerous metals are removed by this method. And the metal powders and sludge can be dried, and the salt water disposed of safely.
Read about it more in the safety section.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=14768

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