Can anyone explain this very strange precipitation?

I stumbled across an interesting video of what appears to be gold precipitating in the form of fine shiny leaf-like particles. Please ignore the fact it has an alchemical taste... I know alchemy isn't real... don't need a lecture about it. What I would like is a possible chemical explanation for this apparent precipitation. I've never seen gold precipitate as a shiny golden metal. After some research it seems ethanol has been used in the past to precipitate ultra fine shiny golden particles (isn't there a risk of producing explosives when introducing ethanol to gold solutions?). I've also never seen gold precipitate at the surface of a solution...it seems that contact with air might be catalyzing the reaction? What are your thoughts?

(Please keep in mind the topic is not about the merits of alchemy... lets not trash the thread with our opinions of the faux science)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLIhMCyqZ_8

Look at the first comment under the Youtube video. It is by our member Geo and should explain it. Don't believe in these videos. For you own safety

Combining alcohol or ammonium hydroxide with dissolved precious metals isn't in your best interest.

Harold

lanfear said:

Look at the first comment under the Youtube video. It is by our member Geo and should explain it. Don't believe in these videos. For you own safety

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I fail to see how that explains it. I've never seen an oxalic precipitation look even remotely similar to the video posted. How do you get oxalic to drop gold "slow", but more importantly how do you get it to precipitate shiny metal without any matte gold powders coming down simultaneously? I thought maybe the guy just dumped some gold leaf particles in there then started filming, but after watching it a couple of times it really looks like the gold is precipitating at the surface then settling. Just wondering how gold can be precipitated like that without electrolysis and without blowing yourself up.

This looks very much like an oxalic acid drop. If you start with a solution that is already adjusted to the proper pH and the solution is cool, the precipitation of gold is very very slow. That is why it is why it is recommended to do this reaction at/near boiling. Even when heated, the resulting precipitant will often ''sparkle."

It is also possible this person did not use enough Oxalic acid to reduce all the gold in solution... that could explain why he still has color in the solution.

Oxalic acid reductions can make for some really interesting chemistry

Thank you Harold for the warning.

Also, thank you mls26 for the details. I have seen and heard of oxalic dropping gold which has sparkly particles mixed in with the matte sponge/powder, but I have never seen or heard of it producing over 90% shiny sparkly gold. Do you know of any other precipitants which can form mostly shimmering metallic particles?

One thing that bothers me is all the white salt encrusted inside the beaker. It's obviously crystallized from the evaporation of the saturated solution, but do you think it's just NaCl?
Looks kind of different to me.

It's just a guessing game with no way to determine the winner. The only person that knows exactly what it is, is not saying exactly what it is in the video. I can tell you that it's not silver. You have been given the best possible answer to what it might be.

Geo said:

The only person that knows exactly what it is, is not saying

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Geo said:

You have been given the best possible answer

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First you admit you don't know what's happening....then you try to convince me your answer is the "best".
I really enjoy reading your posts Geo, you are definitely a valuable asset to the forum. But if you don't fully understand a reaction, is it good to force an answer and then proclaim all other answers inferior? Seems just a tad close-minded to me.

Geo has provided a plausible explanation.
Of course the other possibility is that "Elias the [adjective censored] Artist" discovered, one afternoon in his basement, the secret that has eluded the finest scientific minds for several thousand years.

I'd put my money on Geo.

My answer? I didn't answer any question. mls26cwru gave an answer and I believe that's what it is. I'm not being closed minded more than just being a realist. It is asking a question that there is no answer. Any answer you get for this question here would just be a guess. If you ask the guy that made the video, he could give you a recipe for poison as quickly as telling you what it truly is. It's like asking how many grains of sand is on the beach or how many stars is in the sky. I'm not trying to be gruff or mean. I'm just trying to be real about it.

Geo has provided a plausible explanation.
Of course the other possibility is that "Elias the [adjective censored] Artist" discovered, one afternoon in his basement, the secret that has eluded the finest scientific minds for several thousand years.

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Jason... I completely agree that Geo gave a plausible explanation. I disagree with you that it is possible that the conventional laws of science were broken. Please re-read the first post if you do not understand my views on the validity of alchemy.

My answer? I didn't answer any question. mls26cwru gave an answer

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Geo... my original question at the start of this thread led to you posting a comment under the video claiming it looked like oxalic precipitation. Then mls26cwru said the same thing which led to you claiming it was the "best" answer. I see no logical reason not to associate the answer with you, as well as mls26cwru.

Any answer you get for this question here would just be a guess.

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It doesn't have to just be a blind guess. It can be an educated guess based on the very real clues we see during the reaction. You gave us your best educated guess, and I thank you for that, even if I don't yet agree that all other possible explanations are necessarily inferior.

he could give you a recipe for poison as quickly as telling you what it truly is.

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This is exactly why I'm posting my question here instead of wasting my time with the deluded pseudo-chemist.



If anyone else has constructive technical information about precipitating shimmering gold particles similar to the video, I would love to hear your thoughts!

black sands said:

Geo has provided a plausible explanation.
Of course the other possibility is that "Elias the [adjective censored] Artist" discovered, one afternoon in his basement, the secret that has eluded the finest scientific minds for several thousand years.

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Jason... I completely agree that Geo gave a plausible explanation. I disagree with you that it is possible that the conventional laws of science were broken. Please re-read the first post if you do not understand my views on the validity of alchemy.

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I was merely being ironic. And ever so slightly jeering, which may or may not have been inappropriate. If so, this anonymous person from across the internet apologises for the sarcasm, but stands by the underlying sentiment, i.e., the ridicule of the OP's purported transformation of silver to gold.

It seems we agree though: that if Terry McCurter is an artist, that my censored adjective has a certain bovine defecation connotation that would be against forum protocol to publish.

jason_recliner said:

I was merely being ironic. And ever so slightly jeering, which may or may not have been inappropriate. If so, this anonymous person from across the internet apologises for the sarcasm, but stands by the underlying sentiment, i.e., the ridicule of the OP's purported transformation of silver to gold.

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Sorry Jason, I was rude. I caught your irony, it's just that when the word "alchemy" gets brought up around here the threads always seem to stray off course with sarcastic remarks about alchemy. I was trying to avoid that with the statement made in my second sentence of this thread. But you were just joking about, sorry I reacted strongly.

There is another explanation... it isn't gold at all, it could just look golden from the color of the liquid or being an iron hydroxide film (ie rust) that are formed.

You wanted to know how to precipitate gold as flakes? As I understand it (never done it myself) oxalic acid precipitation of gold from a butyldiglyme gold chloride solution falls as small golden flakes. I don't see any proof of that in the video though.

Göran

You are right Goran, it might not be gold, although it sure looks like it to me. I think lead iodide forms golden shiny particles that look a little similar.

Look at what the YouTube video producer is saying. He taking silver and turning it into gold. There is no way to do this with standard chemistry as we know it today. The only possible way to do what he is suggesting would be through a nuclear reaction. I doubt he has a reactor in his basement. He has succeeded in making your thoughts run rampant. ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN SILVER INTO GOLD! Everyone who believes what he has purported to have done is naïve and has been duped and it's not even April 1st.

This is a picture of an oxalic acid drop of mine. It is more diluted but it looks a lot like what was in the video.

Geo said:

This is a picture of an oxalic acid drop of mine. It is more diluted but it looks a lot like what was in the video.

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that is extremely beautiful, it's like photos i have seen of deep space, thanks for sharing !!

bswartzwelder said:

Look at what the YouTube video producer is saying. He taking silver and turning it into gold. There is no way to do this with standard chemistry as we know it today. The only possible way to do what he is suggesting would be through a nuclear reaction. I doubt he has a reactor in his basement. He has succeeded in making your thoughts run rampant. ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN SILVER INTO GOLD! Everyone who believes what he has purported to have done is naïve and has been duped and it's not even April 1st.

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Wow, did you even read the starting post? It clearly states that I don't believe it is a transmutation. I think it is a precipitation, as do other smart people on this thread. I also clearly asked not to trash the thread with lectures about alchemy. Please read and understand the topic if you are going to join the discussion.

Geo said:

This is a picture of an oxalic acid drop of mine. It is more diluted but it looks a lot like what was in the video.

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GEO!!!!!! Thanks so much for posting the picture....it does look very similar to the particles in the video.

You can get the same type of drop with SMB too. I've done it a few times.