Clarification on Waste from Stock pot needed

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grainsofgold

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I am needing some clarification on processing wastes-

Coppersolution.jpggreensolution.jpg
I have looked at 4 Nines excellent post on this in the Library but would like to know a bit more on this-

From parting inquartated gold ( kt gold/silver added, not kt gold /copper added ) with Nitric - I end up with Silver Nitrate =

1. Some of the silver nitrate I have I cemented the silver out with Copper- I have this solution in a sealed bucket that I now need to add iron inorder to drop out the copper and other metals which may be in there0

2. a. I have some silver nitrate that I used HCL to get silver chloride out. I then used copper and then used Iron to drop out the metals- I have a beaker of it which I only put the iron in and now its a greenish solution with the crud copper on the bottom-

2.b. In a pail I have the same solution as in 2.a. however I used an air bubbler and now the solution after the air and iron is a muddy copper or rust color- Its show in the image in a white pail.

My questions are :

When you are at the final step of waste- do you need to put an air bubbler in with the iron or not ?

When you add iron- from reading 4 nines post the PH of the solution should be 2.5 before adding the iron -

How do you determine if the iron has completed what its meant to do ?

After the iron has done its job- do you add lye or lime to the solution with the cemented out metals in the bottom of the bucket to raise the PH to 10 -

or do you have to siphon off the solution from the sludge of metals and then adjust the PH ?

If you do have to siphon off the solution from the metal sludge what do you do to treat the metal sludge ?

Also- is the copper and metal sludge at the end of this process safer to toss out or does it need to be treated or dealt with some way to make it safe ?

and my last question- it seems like if one were trying to use the copper from the iron drop that most folks here consider it a lot of work for little return - if this is not correct what would be the proper way to get the copper out so you could use it or melt it into a usable metal of sorts-


Thank you all in advance- I learn so much from here and I appreciate all the sharing -
 
grainsofgold said:
I am needing some clarification on processing wastes-

Coppersolution.jpggreensolution.jpg
I have looked at 4 Nines excellent post on this in the Library but would like to know a bit more on this-

From parting inquartated gold ( kt gold/silver added, not kt gold /copper added ) with Nitric - I end up with Silver Nitrate =

1. Some of the silver nitrate I have I cemented the silver out with Copper- I have this solution in a sealed bucket that I now need to add iron inorder to drop out the copper and other metals which may be in there0

2. a. I have some silver nitrate that I used HCL to get silver chloride out. I then used copper and then used Iron to drop out the metals- I have a beaker of it which I only put the iron in and now its a greenish solution with the crud copper on the bottom-

2.b. In a pail I have the same solution as in 2.a. however I used an air bubbler and now the solution after the air and iron is a muddy copper or rust color- Its show in the image in a white pail.

My questions are :

When you are at the final step of waste- do you need to put an air bubbler in with the iron or not ?

When you add iron- from reading 4 nines post the PH of the solution should be 2.5 before adding the iron -

How do you determine if the iron has completed what its meant to do ?

After the iron has done its job- do you add lye or lime to the solution with the cemented out metals in the bottom of the bucket to raise the PH to 10 -

or do you have to siphon off the solution from the sludge of metals and then adjust the PH ?

If you do have to siphon off the solution from the metal sludge what do you do to treat the metal sludge ?

Also- is the copper and metal sludge at the end of this process safer to toss out or does it need to be treated or dealt with some way to make it safe ?

and my last question- it seems like if one were trying to use the copper from the iron drop that most folks here consider it a lot of work for little return - if this is not correct what would be the proper way to get the copper out so you could use it or melt it into a usable metal of sorts-


Thank you all in advance- I learn so much from here and I appreciate all the sharing -
Click to expand...

I think you meant 4-Metals's post . . . which is excellent.

1. Yes, you want an air bubbler in there when you cement metals onto iron, I also add an aquarium heater turned all the way up, the bit of heat and agitation from the bubbler makes it go much faster.
2. You know that the iron has done its job when no more Copper cements onto the (cleaned) iron. The solution will also be a clearish green-tea color at this point.
3. I prefer to add Magnesium Oxide to raise the ph (from the local farm store), but I believe Lime will work also. When you add the powder, add it over the course of a day or so (slowly) and keep an eye on the solution, you cannot look at the ph because it changes too slowly and you will add too much of the powder. When the iron precipitates out as Hydroxide, it looks almost like there is something in suspension in the fluid, hard to explain, but once you've seen it you will understand.
4. Sodium Hydroxide will also work, but the resultant sludge doesn't settle as well.
5. I siphon or wick filter the green-tea solution away from the cemented Copper before I start increasing the ph
6. The metal sludge at this point is mainly metals with some iron chloride solution, if you want to dump the metal sludge safely, just mix in a good amount of lime so the iron drops out as Hydroxide, then this sludge is reasonably environmentally safe.
7. This method is the best way to get the Copper out, but it also cements out everything else that was still in the solution. You can certainly melt this powder into copper anodes, then use Cu refining cell to get 999 Copper bars. But, depending on the scale of your operation, this is more hassle than its worth.
 
The pH can be anywhere between 2 and 2.5 Much higher and the iron will drop out of solution. An air bubbler makes the solution mix and contact the iron more frequently so it is beneficial. Heat is also good but not as necessary as air.

I know of some refiners who have the tank for the adding of the iron and use a plating horizontal barrel to place iron rebar into and tumble. This provides the mixing and the copper is constantly dislodged from the iron and falls out of the barrel holes and collects on the bottom. I know most guys don't have a plating barrel laying around, but if you do, they work very nice.

plating barrel.jpeg

When the solution turns a tea green you are likely done. Clean a small piece of iron with steel wool and put it in the solution for a few minutes, if it doesn't coat up with copper you know you are done. It saves on the iron to remove it from the acid because it won't stop dissolving.

Raising the pH with Magnesium Oxide to about 3.5 will drop out the iron. The MagOx is best because it doesn't inhibit filtration like liquid caustic will. Don't go to much past pH 4 and all of the iron will be out. Filter out the iron and stop using MagOx. If you want to go to neutral stop at 6 .5 to 7 and the waste will be non corrosive.

This chart is the pH that metals come from solution, you can see if you go too high other metals which are above iron on the electromotive series chart will come down. Actually it's not a bad test to try. Not quantitative but it will show you how effective copper cementation followed by iron cementation is on your particular waste.

metal solubility vs pH.png
 
Thank you !!!

Yes the post I was referring to was by 4 Metals -

The plating barrell really makes sense-

From the answers its time to day good bye to the copper left and not spend Dollars going after pennies or something like that :)

Sometimes its better to have a fast nickel than a slow slow dime -


GrainsofGold
 

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