Maybe Silver with copper, I dont know, help please

Hello to all, first of all, thanks to everyone and i'm new in the fórum, so if i made a mistake of creating this topic i'm sorry, i'm really concerned. i did my first process and tryed to start with AR, i will describe bellow step by step.


PC PARTS USED IN THIS PROCESS: Ram Finger (various type of ram)

METHOD OF SEPARATING FINGERS FROM RAM: i cuted the fingers with a scissors.


LETS TO CHEMICAL PROCESS.


I did 200ml AR with muriatic acid and nitric acid (3:1).

Dropped the AR into a becker with the ram fingers
(figure 1).


I let it dissolve for two days.


I filtered all finger with a kitchen sieve just to take off all the ram finger from the solution.


I fintered the liquid with normal Cooffe filter.


I filtered again with a qualitative filter paper (twice)(using two filter per time)(till it get clear enough)(figure2).


Added Sulfamic acid till bubbles ends (figure3).

I waited one day.

I did the gold test with SMB (positive for gold).

I added two spoon of SMB.


Everything turned brown (normal)


In the next day when i saw, it just looked like the all SMB was in the botton of the solution, with some gold foils floating so i thought it didn't work.


I took the liquid with a syringe and filtered with qualitative filter paper to another becker (probably there is gold in the filter) (i still have that liquid 800ml, if there is gold, i have to add AR again?, how can i get the gold from 800 ml of green liquid stabilized?)

I end up with a white powder that looked with SMB.

i guess it was with almost 2 fingers of powder in the botton thats why i thought it was SMB couldn't not be silver, well don't know...

I did fresh 150ml (3:1) AR and drop in the powder while heated it with an electric cooker


All acid evaporated and left only the Silver powder.

I added tap water mixed everything.

I filtered with qualitative filter paper again till it got clear and free of residuous, and this time i obtained blue crystals (figure 4)

I waited one day, and Added sulfamic acid again, but nothing happens this time

I did the SMB test to verify if there was gold (positive)


I'm still waiting since it, it's been now one week, and it's the actual photo from the liquid (figures 5)



The White powder in the botton from figure 5 looks really like with the first one obtained in the first process (a little bit grey i guess, but the same)


Can anyone tell me what happened and what can i do to obtain gold from it ?



THANK YOU ALL GUYS!

What was the weight of the fingers?

It was 1.7 Kg or 3747,858 lbs
(100 ram fingers)

Often, the best way to recover from unknown problems is to cement any values out of the solution with copper. If that doesn't produce your gold, then it's somewhere along the line in your filters.

Dave

Barreda said:

It was 1.7 Kg or 3747,858 lbs
(100 ram fingers)

Click to expand...

Something does not add up with your numbers. 100 ram fingers will not weigh anywhere near 1.7kg, or 3747lbs. If all you had was 100 ram fingers then you will end up with VERY little gold, but you should have some. Try Dave's advice and cement with copper, and then show us the results.

Dennis

denim said:

Barreda said:

It was 1.7 Kg or 3747,858 lbs
(100 ram fingers)

Click to expand...

Something does not add up with your numbers. 100 ram fingers will not weigh anywhere near 1.7kg, or 3747lbs. If all you had was 100 ram fingers then you will end up with VERY little gold, but you should have some. Try Dave's advice and cement with copper, and then show us the results.

Dennis

Click to expand...

Sorry, 1.7kg was the complet ram not the fingers, sorry, i didn't measured the fingers, i only know that is 100 ram fingers.


A friend of mine told to try to dissolve this powder into sulfuric acid and muriatic acid, and if i hadn't the sulfuric try with battery solution, and use sulfamic and SBM again, and try the drop, but this time using thermal shock with cold water or ice, what do you guys think about? does anyone tryied this before? os use cooper stead is 100% better than dissolve again? if i chose to use copper, i have to do the process again or just put the piece of copper into the solution in figure 5?


Thanks all!

Try: dissolve white powder with HCL, if negative ammoniak, if negative that is SnO2
In this case start with AR on the powder. However the gold amount is negligible

What stage of the process is the top picture please?

anachronism said:

What stage of the process is the top picture please?

Click to expand...

FInal stage, actual stage actually.

Lino1406 said:

Try: dissolve white powder with HCL, if negative ammoniak, if negative that is SnO2
In this case start with AR on the powder. However the gold amount is negligible

Click to expand...

Thank you Lino ! I was expecting 1g or 2g of gold, i use two spoon, even a little bit more of SMB the first and second try, do you think that it may cause that disaster?

Barreda,
When you put the fingers in AR you also dissolved the base metals underneath the gold foils- mostly copper, a little nickel, and depending how carefully you cut the ram- possibly some tin solder which makes metastannic acid). Unless some of the fingers were tin-silver type there shouldn't be any reason to expect to have any silver in your solution. SMB will drop the copper as white copper chloride as well as any other metals. Copper chloride will dissolve easily in HCL then you can decant the powders left over. I would try it on a small sample- it should turn clear green with enough hcl.
Why are you using SMB for testing for gold? Stannous chloride is a much better option.
I would expect a little over a half a gram for 100 double-sided fingers.
Did you add anything else to the solution? you started with 400ml, then another 150ml, and ended up with 800 somehow. Cementing with copper may be the best solution but make sure you do not have any metastannic acid in the solution first. (The layer on the bottom of figure 5 makes me think lead chloride from solder) I did not see foils in any of the pictures. Are you saying they appeared in the filtered solution after adding the SMB?

Not to forget, using stannous chloride brings SnO2 by itself

I'm sorry, I see where you added the tap water to get 800 ml. The tap water may have produced chlorides depending on what was in it. Is there any acid left in the solution now?
Is there a brown residue sticking to the bottom half of the beaker in figure 5 or is it just a reflection. I have had gold precipitate and stick to the side of my beaker because it was dirty before. I have also seen the powders float due to oil from a dirty beaker as well.
I would really like to see a test using stannous chloride.

Lino1406 said:

Not to forget, using stannous chloride brings SnO2 by itself

Click to expand...

You don't add stannous chloride directly to your solution. You use a spot plate, a drop on some filter paper or a pin with a piece of cotton on top.
To save the gold from a spot plate, just wash it into your stock pot. Filter papers or cotton goes into the burn pile with used filters... unless it's negative, then there is no reason to keep it.

Göran

Barreda said:

anachronism said:

What stage of the process is the top picture please?

Click to expand...

FInal stage, actual stage actually.

Click to expand...

If that's the case then that brown around the edge of your glass is your gold sticking to the unclean surface.

anachronism said:

Barreda said:

anachronism said:

What stage of the process is the top picture please?

Click to expand...

FInal stage, actual stage actually.

Click to expand...

If that's the case then that brown around the edge of your glass is your gold sticking to the unclean surface.

Click to expand...

Sounds and looks right to me

bigpagoda said:

Barreda,
When you put the fingers in AR you also dissolved the base metals underneath the gold foils- mostly copper, a little nickel, and depending how carefully you cut the ram- possibly some tin solder which makes metastannic acid). Unless some of the fingers were tin-silver type there shouldn't be any reason to expect to have any silver in your solution. SMB will drop the copper as white copper chloride as well as any other metals. Copper chloride will dissolve easily in HCL then you can decant the powders left over. I would try it on a small sample- it should turn clear green with enough hcl.
Why are you using SMB for testing for gold? Stannous chloride is a much better option.
I would expect a little over a half a gram for 100 double-sided fingers.
Did you add anything else to the solution? you started with 400ml, then another 150ml, and ended up with 800 somehow. Cementing with copper may be the best solution but make sure you do not have any metastannic acid in the solution first. (The layer on the bottom of figure 5 makes me think lead chloride from solder) I did not see foils in any of the pictures. Are you saying they appeared in the filtered solution after adding the SMB?

Click to expand...

Hello Bigpagoda, first of all, thank you for your response, i thought it was silver because a friend of mine told me it was, because of the blue crystals in the filter on figure 4, but now Reading your response, makes more sense thinking it is tin solder, when i cuted the fingers off the ram, icuted some tin solder too, if i dissolve the white powder on the botton with hcl or HNO3 or with AR, what should i do after it got dissolved and turn green? I'm using SMB for test because i don't have the Stannous chloride, after i bought everything i ran out of Money, i was expecting at least 1g, now im little upset, but ok, thats my first process, no i didn't added anythning else on the solution only distilled water when i was filtering the solution,that's why i ended with a huge amount of liquid, how can i identify if i have metastannic acid? I had foils floating on the first solution, when the first solution ended with white powder on the botton i fintered the solution to another beker and i did a new AR for the powder on the bottom and heated it on the electric cooker, the figure 5 its the result of the second time i did the process with AR and electric cooker, the first solution with gold foils i did'nt take a Picture.

You don't need to spend money on stannous.

HCl and some tinned solder works perfectly.

I need to clarify some things.
1. All of the solutions you have made, and all of the powders are in the one beaker in figure 5 right now.
2. That beaker still tests positive for gold with SMB.
3. You kept all the filters.
4. Is there a brown film sticking to the side of that beaker.

I think you need to clean another beaker very well. Use a residue-free solvent (acetone-aclohol etc.) wear gloves, and dry it well. Carefully pour most of the liquid out of figure5 beaker into the clean beaker then use your syringe to suck out the rest leaving only the powder. Slowly add little amounts of HCL to the powder and dissolve it until it turns from brown to green (kinda clear). If it does not dissolve easily stop. Let it sit overnight. If there is any fine dark powder in it the next day that will be your gold (along with the brown residue that may still be stuck to that beaker).
Test both solutions again and post pictures of each.
Stannous chloride is easy to make if you have a source of fairly pure tin. many poeple use tin solder or lead-free fishing sinkers. Lots of info about how to make it on the forum. Copperas is also very easy to come by or make as well. Both ways work much better than SMB. The problem with having you try a new test procedure is that you need a sample of dissloved gold to make sure it works.
If you did make metastannic acid it will make filtering difficult or impossible. It sounds like you might have a very little bit. Most of it is probably trapped in the filters and in the new clean beaker. I wouldn't worry about that yet.

I am also curious. I have never heard of testing for gold in solution using SMB. Could you explain how you use it to get a positive result.
Thanks,
Paul