wires containin pd---1100 kgs--no more detail at the moment

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This should yield no response as there isn't enough information to give a relevant answer.

What's the predominant metal? Percentage Pd? Other elements present?


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Dear forum friends,thanks for welcoming me back-----I am back in order to help my son----he gets lot of precious metals scrap ,but has to re-sell the scrap to others for low prices---I am beginning with the wire containing Pd-----next week,i will know the metal composition of these wires and will pass to you.---i also will have lots of carbon embedded with gold---and hundreds of spent rhodium baths from fantasy jewelry manufacturers---- it is an opportunity that i cannot let pass------thanks to you all and i am returning
, Arthur Kierski
 
Nice to see you back, Arthur!

Also interesting to follow this thread, sounds like you have a lot of projects going on.

Göran
 
Olá Arthur! Como vai?

How much do you estimate to have of rhodium in those plating solutions?

The carbon embedded with gold is activated charcoal? (carvão ativado)

Does the wire containing Pd comes from palladium plating as an intermediate layer of the plating process?
 
As i wrote last week,only this wednesday or thursday,i will have these material with me--then i will estimate the quantities ofprecious metals in them----As i worked and made rh 2grams solutions for a couple of years,i found that spent bath,have around 0,2 grams of rh left--- i will have at least 200spent bath monthly---that is 40 grams of rh,or 20new rh bath---or sell the rh powder as i did when it was 10000dollars an ounce--today is 2800 dollars an ounce------as for the pd, i hope that the percentage will be between 0,5% to 1%per kilo of wire--that is5,5kilos or 176 troy ounces--as for the carbon with gold embedded in it,i only know at the moment that is a huge quantity collected during 10years-----I hope with these informations ,i helped the brazzilian member of the forum--- Regards to all members who wellcomed me back---specially Plattdigger,Lou,GSP,Axelson and the ones that i forgot ,because i am doing by memory---i do not have the threads in front of me
Yours Arthur Kierski
 
As i wrote last week, today i have the details of the wires containing PD-----the wires are copper wires plated and replated with paladdium---Now ,i need sugestions of recuperating this pd from the wires---perhaps
there is silver in the layer bellow the pd----Thanks all for waiting for the details
Arthur Kierski
 
Generally speaking electroplated wires have an even plating thickness because they are usually plated on a continuous feed circuit so the wire basically stays in a continuous length and transfers from reel to reel while being dipped in different baths to be cleaned, plated and rinsed before being rewound on the last reel.

I would try to repeat the process by using a warm dilute nitric solution to see if the time exposed to the acid is consistent to strip to bare copper. Then it's just a matter of playing with temperature and nitric concentration to get a workable time to strip to the copper base and no more. I will be guessing here but I believe the Pd was put on as a thin deposit to prevent any electrical degradation from tarnishing of a heavier plated Ag layer beneath.

To strip just the plating will save a lot of fumes and acid and give you clean copper to sell. Is this stuff still wound on coils? That could make it easier.
 
4metals wouldn't you try copper electrolysis?

Arthur do you know what is the Pd percentage? Perhaps you could use this copper as a gold/PGM collector when doing melts.
 
4metals wouldn't you try copper electrolysis?

It all depends on whether this is a one time shipment or something he will see routinely. With a copper cell he could branch off into smelting and copper refining to concentrate the values but only a shop owner knows what is likely to show up at his door or what he is willing to go after. Stripping can be fast and easy if all conditions are right so it is a viable option but far from the only way forward.
 
4 metals----- i have takem 60 kilos as saample--it came in 4bags----it is in a mesh form---itook home about 40grams of the 60kilos---it is very bright and one can unwined the mesh(40grams) into a long wire----so i deduce that it came from a continuos electroplating process----I am not interessted in the copper underneath in the wire---the owner of this 1100kgs wants back 60 % of the pd recuperated---the other 40% is mine---he is not interrested in the Ag,or other eventual pms in the wire-----i have plenty of nitric,and dmg,hypoclorites,nh4cl ,formic acid,hidrazine-----so i have to choose which method to use to recuperate the pd-----I have a crazy idea of using Nacn+nmss and deplate the wires,and to the solution add naoh to elevate the ph and zinc powder to precipitate the pd----i used to do this with gold plated wires----Could any member tell me if this idea could work-----it would save lots of time and work---thanks again,and open to sugestions

the quantity of pd-goes from1 to 2¨%----------
Arthur Kierski
 
4metals said:
Generally speaking electroplated wires have an even plating thickness because they are usually plated on a continuous feed circuit so the wire basically stays in a continuous length and transfers from reel to reel while being dipped in different baths to be cleaned, plated and rinsed before being rewound on the last reel.

I would try to repeat the process by using a warm dilute nitric solution to see if the time exposed to the acid is consistent to strip to bare copper. Then it's just a matter of playing with temperature and nitric concentration to get a workable time to strip to the copper base and no more. I will be guessing here but I believe the Pd was put on as a thin deposit to prevent any electrical degradation from tarnishing of a heavier plated Ag layer beneath.

To strip just the plating will save a lot of fumes and acid and give you clean copper to sell. Is this stuff still wound on coils? That could make it easier.


4metals - I don't "think" this will work as a result of the reactivity series --- because copper is more reactive to nitric then Pd the "potential" of the nitric is going to want to go to work on the copper long before going to work on the PD --- in other words the nitric the potential of the nitric is going to go more (by a lot) to reacting with the copper while going less (much less) to reacting with the Pd

Here is a quote to something I wrote once (this was a discussion about separating Pd points from Ag points) ----

There is no way to identify them (the Ag from the Pd) just by looking them & you don't need to anyway (in order to separate the Ag ones from the Pd ones for processing)

Why ? --- because first off they are ether silver - or they are Pd - & the acid (nitric) will separate them for you --- now I know everyone is going to say - "wait a minute Kurt if you put Ag points in nitric along with Pd points isn't it just going to dissolve both the Ag & the Pd"

The answer to that is both yes & no --- but "by far" more no then yes - if you do it right - you can dissolve all of the copper/brass & Ag away leaving behind (un-dissolved) just the Pd points - only a very small "trace" amount of Pd will going into solution

How can that be ? --- it has to do with the reactive series & the "potential" of the acid (nitric) to work on the metals its trying to dissolve --- it is true that nitric will dissolve Pd - but its "potential" to do so is VERY low (slight) compared to nitric's "potential" to dissolve copper/brass &/or Ag

Pd is "much less reactive" to the nitric then the copper/brass & Ag --- it takes a "great deal" more time - along with heat - to dissolve pure Pd with nitric compared to that of copper/brass &/or Ag

So you can use "that fact" to make the separation of the "pure" Pd points from the Ag points with the nitric - here is what you do (I will be providing pics along with this which will take several postings)

Here is a link to that thread ----- http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23091&p=242399&hilit=potential#p242399

Kurt
 
The wire I have seen has a thin flash of Palladium over Silver with the intention of the Palladium acting as a tarnish inhibitor. The thin coat of Palladium should etch away quickly because it is so thin, leaving Silver exposed to the nitric. But if you leave it in too long the copper will build and cement the Silver and the Palladium. When the intact wire first see’s the nitric, no Copper is exposed to the acid which will give a window of opportunity for this process to work.

I like to start simple and practical before high tech, and attempting to selectively digest the values fits that bill.
 
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