starting catalytic converter test with pics

pgm · Dec 19, 2010

hi

here is my test the last one for gold i did with everyone on the forum and everyone was very helpful....so i thought i might i do the same thing again for cat's

Ok i have taken 1 kilo of honeycome and crushed it then added it 3000ml beaker and added in 2liters of hcl and 0.5 liters of nitric

then i have placed it on a hot plate with a foil and sand to stop the thermal heat from breaking my beaker (i have broken 3 beakers but the sand should stop pyrex beaker from snapping) heated for 3 hours @ 80-100'C

rusty · Dec 19, 2010

The procedure is right except he forgot to mention that it should be conducted using a FUME HOOD.

pgm · Dec 19, 2010

rusty said:
The procedure is right except he forgot to mention that it should be conducted using a FUME HOOD.

sorry my friend ohhh Dear rusty.....safty is a must i forgot you have already mentioned this twice to me.....people rusty is 110% correct be safe and use a fume hood......Thank you Rusty

pgm · Dec 19, 2010

so i have now filtered the solution and i have a green colour solution not orange or red but green....more pics

lazersteve · Dec 19, 2010

You are using way too much HCl and nitric. Try covering the comb in tap water then add enough AR (5:1 HCl:HNO3 muriatic:nitric) to dissolve about five grams of PGMs (25mL HCl : 5 mL HNO3). Double the amounts if you are processing cats from high end foreign model vehicles. I usually use more HCl than 5 times the nitric so the solution is a little more acidic. You can double or even triple the amount of HCl, but not the nitric and still get good results.

Add the nitric in 1-2 mL additions at 60-90C and stop adding if you don't see any tiny bubbles coming from the material with each added dose. The crushed material has to be stirred also to expose the fine grains to the acid. You should notice the color of the solution darkening as the PGMs are extracted. Test periodically with stannous chloride and DMG to monitor the reaction progress.

Steve

pgm · Dec 19, 2010

now i have done a stanous with i did this 2 time one was a light dip and the other was a big dip inside the pgm liquid

please wear gloves....safty first

more pics

lazersteve · Dec 19, 2010

Looks positive, now you can use the same liquid to extract 20 more cats or you can evaporate it down after filtering it free of sediment to remove the 500 mL of nitric you used.

Steve

pgm · Dec 19, 2010

lazersteve said:
Looks positive, now you can use the same liquid to extract 20 more cats or you can evaporate it down after filtering it free of sediment to remove the 500 mL of nitric you used.

Steve

how much shall i evaporate....200ml of total liquid or when it becomes slug (thick)

lazersteve · Dec 19, 2010

Evaporate to syrup like consistency then rehydrate (do not allow to dry out) with HCl. Repeat two more times or until no more brown fumes are seen.

Steve

pgm · Dec 19, 2010

lazersteve said:
Evaporate to syrup like consistency then rehydrate (do not allow to dry out) with HCl. Repeat two more times or until no more brown fumes are seen.

Steve

thankyou Steve for the info i will post more pic's when this is complete..

pgm · Dec 22, 2010

ok i added the zinc and then i filtered...........i did a stanous test and no change but i think i added just a little too much zinc...but not sure...

so here are the pics these are when i think the zinc has done it's job and dropped out the pgm....

pgm · Dec 22, 2010

ok these are the pics of the filtering....while i was filtering into another beaker...i took these...it looks like some reaction is still happening even after the stanous is showing no change in colour.....something is bubbling in the acid..

what do you think steve?

lazersteve · Dec 23, 2010

Let the solution settle for several hours and see what color the liquid is.

The mixed PGM powder will be on the bottom of the beaker.

zinc metal + muriatic acid = zinc chloride + hydrogen gas

Steve

pgm · Dec 23, 2010

lazersteve said:
Let the solution settle for several hours and see what color the liquid is.

The mixed PGM powder will be on the bottom of the beaker.

zinc metal + muriatic acid = zinc chloride + hydrogen gas

Steve

Steve i have a black liquid with a tint of lime green ...now i have done a sharman filter and the liquid has gotten lighter but i can see at the end of every filter at the bottom some pgm still get's through the process.....i re filter after 5 hours and ther always is something at the bottom very fine but i can see it...

sorry i didn't get pic today but will take some tommarrow..

the first filter has pgm that dropped in it...this is black....the filter paper has also gone brown/orange where i have sprayed to the filter paper to move the pgm's down the filter paper...will take pic's to show again tommarow..

shall i dry the pgm in the filter......? i can then re AR the powder but this time use nitric 1ml at a time......i really wanted to follow the dvd.my fault too much nitric..got everything for it too...

pgm · Dec 24, 2010

ok here are the pics of the filter.....last night i had put all the liquid into one big beaker and today i decanted into a another beaker and there is a thick black bottom layer this got through this filter....these are 6 coffee filters...the only other filter i have is wattmans 4 ashless filters.....i am going to try these next but this will take time 5.5cm filters.....i used these when i did gold filtering....it did the job...

or do i need another type of filter....?

any help is welcomed....

Barren Realms 007 · Dec 24, 2010

You might want to try a charmin plug thru a funnel. And when you filter your solution if you still get material passing thru refilter with the same plug. As the plug gathers your PM's it will fill the voids that some of your material might be passing thru and recover more of your material. The filtering will get considerably slower but you will recover more of your material.

pgm · Dec 24, 2010

Barren Realms 007 said:
You might want to try a charmin plug thru a funnel. And when you filter your solution if you still get material passing thru refilter with the same plug. As the plug gathers your PM's it will fill the voids that some of your material might be passing thru and recover more of your material. The filtering will get considerably slower but you will recover more of your material.

thanks barren..... i will try this..... you think i should wash with hcl to wash away any zinc.....i was thinking of rinsing at the end with hcl....but not done it yet

Barren Realms 007 · Dec 24, 2010

pgm said:
Barren Realms 007 said:

You might want to try a charmin plug thru a funnel. And when you filter your solution if you still get material passing thru refilter with the same plug. As the plug gathers your PM's it will fill the voids that some of your material might be passing thru and recover more of your material. The filtering will get considerably slower but you will recover more of your material.

Click to expand...

thanks barren..... i will try this..... you think i should wash with hcl to wash away any zinc.....i was thinking of rinsing at the end with hcl....but not done it yet

Steve or one of the other members could answer this better than I could. If you were working with just gold powder I would say yes. But with the material you are working with I am not 100% sure and don't want to lead you in the wrong direction.

pgm · Dec 24, 2010

Barren Realms 007 said:
pgm said:

Barren Realms 007 said:

You might want to try a charmin plug thru a funnel. And when you filter your solution if you still get material passing thru refilter with the same plug. As the plug gathers your PM's it will fill the voids that some of your material might be passing thru and recover more of your material. The filtering will get considerably slower but you will recover more of your material.

Click to expand...

thanks barren..... i will try this..... you think i should wash with hcl to wash away any zinc.....i was thinking of rinsing at the end with hcl....but not done it yet

Click to expand...

Steve or one of the other members could answer this better than I could. If you were working with just gold powder I would say yes. But with the material you are working with I am not 100% sure and don't want to lead you in the wrong direction.

i am waitng for steve to guide me..................i went wrong...i ended up added too much nitric.....i have done the process before but with aluminum but guessing was a major part of it............................so i decided to do a more controlled test......at the moment i have clean black powder this...i will only impove on this....but in the gold refine i have gotten pretty good...well i have improved 90% of my process....thanks for the reply

skippy · Dec 27, 2010

Steve, does this very dilute approach require extended leaching times? In any case Neutralization would be a snap .
I'll have to give it a try - do you think a nalgene (polypropylene) bottle would be suitable?

lazersteve said:
You are using way too much HCl and nitric. Try covering the comb in tap water then add enough AR (5:1 HCl:HNO3 muriatic:nitric) to dissolve about five grams of PGMs (25mL HCl : 5 mL HNO3). Double the amounts if you are processing cats from high end foreign model vehicles. I usually use more HCl than 5 times the nitric so the solution is a little more acidic. You can double or even triple the amount of HCl, but not the nitric and still get good results.

Add the nitric in 1-2 mL additions at 60-90C and stop adding if you don't see any tiny bubbles coming from the material with each added dose. The crushed material has to be stirred also to expose the fine grains to the acid. You should notice the color of the solution darkening as the PGMs are extracted. Test periodically with stannous chloride and DMG to monitor the reaction progress.

Steve

starting catalytic converter test with pics

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