***** The Platinumill Exposed and on Trial *****

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Hi guys, (new to the forum) I have been looking at one for myself. I called the guy and his prices have gone up considerably since his first post, i'm working on getting a steady supply of cats before I start to bargain ( beat him down) for a machine. I will be looking forward to your assesment of this,, P.s if you dont mind, what was the out the door cost? Thx frog
 
I wonder if your cats in cali. have a higher amount of metals in them? due to higher standards.
 
I will let everyone here know the results i get from the platinumill. Since i just took a big leap of faith and spent the 7200 bucks for this machine. I will start the leaching probably this week or next.
 
I'm thinking of spending a few days up there at his operation in Ohio. I think he is making more money processing converters, I dont think he wants to take the time to make these for other people , thus the price increase. I'm excited to hear how your system works out for you. In what ways are you obtaining converters? Frog
 
iam actually a partner in a car recycling business so we get the cats free and then sell the car to a pick n pull lot for parts it works out great i cant wait to tell you guys the results on this platinumill. I hope they are good because i forked over the money for it and it seems nobody else has really had the courage to. But i did spend at least 13 hrs total with the seller on the phone and asked a series of questions before i bought the machine and also had a clause put in the purchase agreement he makes you sign stating that if the machine does not prove its results i can get a refund less the shipping charges. I hope i can get started before the new year and let everyone know soon. ill keep you guys posted on the outcome dont worry if this platinumill is what it is marketed to be than my friends do not look any further and buy one but just hold on for my opinion first.
 
Would you not get a better economical return just listing cats on Ebay or Cat max without having that kind of cash tied up in equipment and chemical costs? One would think that there can't be much more than 50 bucks in one on average. Makes a guy wonder though if thats the case how they can afford to buy them at those prices and why are the aftermarket units less desirable?
 
The average yields from cats that I've read about is between 2-4 grams of PGMs (Pt, Pd, Rh) per cat.

I'll have some real yield numbers to post very soon.

Of course the various types of cats have different yield values.

If you figure the maximum estimated yield value in Pt of six units you have:

6 x 4 = 24 grams

1512 / 31.1 = $48.62 per gram @ todays Pt spot.

24 x $48.62 = $1166.88

To get an estimated value per cat you can divide the dollar amount by the number of cats:

$116.88 / 6 = $194.48 per cat.

This figure is in line with the current average cost of new cats. I just had to replace the cat on my car last month and the new cat cost me $204 total.

Old worn out cats most likely won't yield the estimated maximum so adjust your figures accordingly.

Steve
 
Lazersteve, dont forget the rhodium and the palladium, even though small amounts, it still adds up to big $$, new cats (aftermarket) cats have very, very , very little amounts, thus the cheap price compared to O.E.M ....The exact amounts per style of cats are kind of a trade secret by those who process them. As long as the honey cmb iside is fully intact, you should get full value of of it. The older bead style cats lost alot of material, blowing out into the road, so if you see a guy sweeping the busy intersections here in Houston, you might know what I'm up too.
 
froggy said:
The exact amounts per style of cats are kind of a trade secret by those who process them.

I'm not of the same mindset with my yield data. I'll gladly post any yield information I obtain on cats.

I think the difference in the cost of OEM vs aftermarket is not due to PGM content but instead due to manufacturers markup.

The EPA has specific emission control guidelines for the manufacturers of cats (as of Jan 1, 1988) that must be followed for the cat to meet the required emission control standards in the US. These standards require a specific level of catalytic activity from the converter which translates to PGM content in the cat. The shortcomings of the aftermarket cat are noticed when they are installed on an incompatible vehicle type.

If what you are saying is true, either the aftermarket cats are not as effective at controlling these emissions or that the OEM units are made to exceed the standards.

I think the main difference in the OEM vs aftermarket cats is vehicle compatibility. Since OEMs are made to fit a variety of vehicles the performance of the cat may be reduced for some vehicle types as compared to the OEM conterpart.

Here's an EPA document that reinforces my position:

OEM vs Aftermarket Cats

and a more recent EPA web site on OEM vs aftermarket cats:

Updated aftermarket cat info

Here's a verbatim quote from the above website:

EPA Document said:
Abstract: The aftermarket catalytic converter policy allows
aftermarket automobile catalytic converter manufacturers and
reconditioners to compete with the automobile manufacturers for the
aftermarket catalytic converter replacement market. Without this policy,
it would be illegal to sell or install aftermarket catalytic
converters that do not conform exactly to the automobile manufacturers'
original equipment (OE) versions of these parts
.

I have highlighted some important text.

This brings up a good experiment for me to run. I'll compare the PGM yields from a single OEM cat to a single aftermarket cat and post the results in due time.


Steve
 
All,

Here's another document I found on Pt yields from cats:

Platinum Flow Report

I have credited the original author on the first page of the pdf file.

The third page specifically states:

Pt_Flow Document said:
They are constructed by applying a film of platinum, palladium and ruthenium on a ceramic “monolith”. It is estimated that the average catalytic converter on the market contains 1.5 g of PGM (USGS, 1998). The proportion of the three metals varies considerably.

This figure is even less than what I had previously read elsewhere.

The remainder of the linked document has some great information in it about PGM production and some really good references.

Steve
 
Here's an excerpt from a document referenced in my previous post:

USGS Pt Info

Page 5 gives specific references to cat yields of PGMs with ratios.

This is a realy good document, everyone interested in cats should read it.

Steve
 
The amount of PGM's and which ones in each converter
depends on a few things. 1-What year, some years will
be more palladium in the mix because of the price or
availability of platinum. 2- What size engine the converter
was designed for, high performance or larger engines
need more area and PGM content. 3-Foreign converters
seem to be higher in PGM, maybe so they pass emissions
in whatever country they end up in, or for the fact that they
seem to care about their cars lasting longer and build them
better. I still love old American Iron, but we just don't build
them like that anymore. Jim
 
Steve, YOU ROCK! You bet I sure would be interested in more specific testing outcomes than a list of standards!! THe cat buyers only give about $10 bucks for an aftermarket cat vs 50-130 for OEM, IMPORTANT:are the aftermarkets even being tested for PGM content? I doubt it considering our kids are licking lead paint, and playing with date rape drugs!!! These cat buyers would not be giving these prices if they awere not making $$, there has to be more PGM's than what page 5 of that one article stated. Hopefully we will soon find out, here check out this site www.catmax.net , a nifty little site....
 
A little off topic, but, in some parts they dont even check the levels coming out of your car during an inspection. I was chatting with my local inspection station guy and he told me cars that are tuned correctly (good plugs, spark, timing etc) will pass emissions without a cat, but will fail inspection because they are missing. So really a cat helps clean up exhaust when a car is running poorly and would otherwise fail emmisions... Furthermore: Do the emmisions savings from a cat system far outweigh a freeflowing exhaust without restrictions? What about all the extra fuel needed for a restricted vehicle vs a free flowing correctly tuned vehicle? Theres an argument to be made there, but thats for another Forum... Frog
 
Not on topic> But
the reaason they install cat's on cars is not to clean up the exaust during driving> it's the idle and very low speed that put out such poor exaust

Many don't know this but your Cat doesn't even start working unitil after at least 15 minutes of driving> it has to reach temp
( around 800 Deg) to work at full load
on a cat montor test in a newer car one would have to drive 11 miles at set speeds to get the cat working good enough to test it for function

The biggest reason the cat is there is Auto makers have no problem making a engine go fast for small size > but to acomplish that they have very poor idle emmisions

On a personal note > I have run many of my own trucks with a gutted Cat and pass emissions every time> I gut it to increase the pulling power of the truck,
these trucks run all highway and spend no time in town so it uses less fuel to pull the same load
so that means you right the cat does make the average car consume more fuel> but its a trade off for cleaner in town emmisions.

> for the record> I am still a lic. Master tech specializing in electronics automotive.

But I no longer work in the field
 
To go further off the path of this thread, as far as emissions at idle, I dont understand why cars dont use the same system as gas golf carts (motor shuts off at idle), your belt systems can be run off electric? It would save tons and tons of fuel, emissions pollution etc... I will look into your temp. at which cats start to work, 1800 degrees seems like it would melt your cat and burn your car up!! Well, nuff' that.. cant wait for some test results!!!
 
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