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Snowman2

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
20
I want to buy new or little used XRF like Bruker 1 TITAN 600 with GeoChemistry and precious metals calibrations and desktop stand. Olympus and Thermo also will consider, but only latest models with SDD detectors. Shipping to Canada. I can pay in bitcoins also or USD/CAD bank wire.
 
anachronism said:
Hi Snowman2

Thanks for your first post. Did you mean to put Russia as your country ?

correct, it is my country of origin, I was born in Russia in East Siberia. But for last 20 years living in India in Western Himalayas. I'm definitely not a comi and not a mafia (two stereotypes ofter automatically projected on Russians), if some one interested to know about my political views, PMs are welcome.

My friend Canadian traveling soon to Canada for 3 weeks and I asked her to bring me device. For foreigner it is near to impossible to import it in India. It is not restricted, but custom asking so many different Indian documents, which I don't have.
 
https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/handheld-xrf-metal-analyzer.html
East Mumbai,New delhi,Netaji??
Do not look too hard to find in country.
In fact come to think about it I know several chaps who regularly take there's allover the world in hand luggage with out any problem.
 
It really depends on what you will use the XRF for and what software runs the equipment. For example, Niton makes several especially robust units and the various software ranges from being able to test alloys, soils (geochemistry), lead in paint, etc. Each software package can be pricey, and that coupled with a new unit, could cost upwards of $50k. Yes you can get a used XRF for $5k, but it would probably need to have a new source installed by the manufacturer. That can cost between $5k to $8k (honestly been about 3 years since I needed a new source put in one).

I personally like the lamp style XRFs. However, they are more expensive (last one was about $35k without software). The lamp style XRFs are not specifically regulated by the U.S. Nuclear
Regulatory Commission nor are there restrictions on shipping them within the boundaries of the US. Note that this applies to the US, however, international requirements would vary by location and may affect the availability and shipping of XRF equipment with a radioactive source in them.
 
geedigity said:
It really depends on what you will use the XRF for and what software runs the equipment. For example, Niton makes several especially robust units and the various software ranges from being able to test alloys, soils (geochemistry), lead in paint, etc. Each software package can be pricey, and that coupled with a new unit, could cost upwards of $50k. Yes you can get a used XRF for $5k, but it would probably need to have a new source installed by the manufacturer. That can cost between $5k to $8k (honestly been about 3 years since I needed a new source put in one).

I personally like the lamp style XRFs. However, they are more expensive (last one was about $35k without software). The lamp style XRFs are not specifically regulated by the U.S. Nuclear
Regulatory Commission nor are there restrictions on shipping them within the boundaries of the US. Note that this applies to the US, however, international requirements would vary by location and may affect the availability and shipping of XRF equipment with a radioactive source in them.

I just today got quotation for Niton 800 XL2 $22500
Precious Metal Calibration $2770

most costly calibration package, for example in Olympus Vanta it is around $2500
in Bruker $1200

I decided to go for Bruker 1TITAN 600, with Geo Chemistry and Precious metal calibrations it cost $27000
I mostly will use it for path finder minerals identefication and Bruker in this field second only to Olympus Vanta M series which cost $43500 with geochemistry package plus $2500 for preciouse metals calibration.
 
justinhcase said:
https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/handheld-xrf-metal-analyzer.html
East Mumbai,New delhi,Netaji??
Do not look too hard to find in country.
In fact come to think about it I know several chaps who regularly take there's allover the world in hand luggage with out any problem.

I had add running on indiamart, all same issues, importation problems. import tax 29% and all companies ship on CIP basis, means up to custom and then it is your problem. If they will sale it as imported unit it will attract 15% VAT. hand luggage is the best option indeed.
 
Snowman2 said:
justinhcase said:
https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/handheld-xrf-metal-analyzer.html
East Mumbai,New delhi,Netaji??
Do not look too hard to find in country.
In fact come to think about it I know several chaps who regularly take there's allover the world in hand luggage with out any problem.

I had add running on indiamart, all same issues, importation problems. import tax 29% and all companies ship on CIP basis, means up to custom and then it is your problem. If they will sale it as imported unit it will attract 15% VAT. hand luggage is the best option indeed.

That is the best option until it gets confiscated at a border which is quite a possible option.
That reminds me of the excitement of German security personnel who kindly invited me to their office when they found 500oz of silver rounds in my hand luggage quite a few years ago. That was on a flight between EU countries so there was no customs issue yet they still insisted on opening few tubes and checking what is inside.
I regularly get packages from foreign countries and while before 2008 I rarely encountered any customs check now they do control literally everything. I bet Indian customs are on it big time mainly due to what is happening there lately.
 
patnor1011 said:
Snowman2 said:
justinhcase said:
https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/handheld-xrf-metal-analyzer.html
East Mumbai,New delhi,Netaji??
Do not look too hard to find in country.
In fact come to think about it I know several chaps who regularly take there's allover the world in hand luggage with out any problem.

I had add running on indiamart, all same issues, importation problems. import tax 29% and all companies ship on CIP basis, means up to custom and then it is your problem. If they will sale it as imported unit it will attract 15% VAT. hand luggage is the best option indeed.

That is the best option until it gets confiscated at a border which is quite a possible option.
That reminds me of the excitement of German security personnel who kindly invited me to their office when they found 500oz of silver rounds in my hand luggage quite a few years ago. That was on a flight between EU countries so there was no customs issue yet they still insisted on opening few tubes and checking what is inside.
I regularly get packages from foreign countries and while before 2008 I rarely encountered any customs check now they do control literally everything. I bet Indian customs are on it big time mainly due to what is happening there lately.

Nobody confiscate in India analytical instrument legally purchased for personal use, unless it is on restricted for import list, like drones, night vision devices, rifle scopes, walkie talkies, satellite phones.those can be confiscated.
 
The odd time I have needed an XRF I just rent it from a good firm.They will maintain it well and have the proper calibration targets.
They do it by the day so if you plan your work your can get a lot sorted in that day.
It is a big chunk of change to have sat in the cupboard most of the time not earning.
There must be some one in country who can help you.
 
justinhcase said:
The odd time I have needed an XRF I just rent it from a good firm.They will maintain it well and have the proper calibration targets.
They do it by the day so if you plan your work your can get a lot sorted in that day.
It is a big chunk of change to have sat in the cupboard most of the time not earning.
There must be some one in country who can help you.

India is not the West, not possible to rent. Plus I'm located in remote tribal area no DHL or FEDEX ships to here. Need it real bad, because in June mountain passes will open, chance to get into really interesting areas in Spiti, Lahaul valleys.
 
Snowman2 said:
justinhcase said:
The odd time I have needed an XRF I just rent it from a good firm.They will maintain it well and have the proper calibration targets.
They do it by the day so if you plan your work your can get a lot sorted in that day.
It is a big chunk of change to have sat in the cupboard most of the time not earning.
There must be some one in country who can help you.

India is not the West, not possible to rent. Plus I'm located in remote tribal area no DHL or FEDEX ships to here. Need it real bad, because in June mountain passes will open, chance to get into really interesting areas in Spiti, Lahaul valleys.
What are you doing?
It sounds more like looking for ore rather than triage of alloys?
There may be a better traditional method for assay or field test.
 
justinhcase said:
Snowman2 said:
justinhcase said:
The odd time I have needed an XRF I just rent it from a good firm.They will maintain it well and have the proper calibration targets.
They do it by the day so if you plan your work your can get a lot sorted in that day.
It is a big chunk of change to have sat in the cupboard most of the time not earning.
There must be some one in country who can help you.

India is not the West, not possible to rent. Plus I'm located in remote tribal area no DHL or FEDEX ships to here. Need it real bad, because in June mountain passes will open, chance to get into really interesting areas in Spiti, Lahaul valleys.
What are you doing?
It sounds more like looking for ore rather than triage of alloys?
There may be a better traditional method for assay or field test.

main target is gold placers, like in these ones in high sulfidation epithermal springs
http://maps.google.com/?q=33.224876,78.307448&hl=en&gl=gb
but many other interesting minerals deposits exists here mostly, unknown to civilization.
with passes remains open for 4-5 months per year, no time for filed tests unless it is XRF. Collecting samples not easy too. Sometime you have to carry it in backpacks first, then horses, then car. Just to learn back home that most (or all of it) of these ward work is a total waste. In such situation, best option just test it n place by XRF and leave it where it is.
 
Snowman2 said:
justinhcase said:
Snowman2 said:
justinhcase said:
The odd time I have needed an XRF I just rent it from a good firm.They will maintain it well and have the proper calibration targets.
They do it by the day so if you plan your work your can get a lot sorted in that day.
It is a big chunk of change to have sat in the cupboard most of the time not earning.
There must be some one in country who can help you.

India is not the West, not possible to rent. Plus I'm located in remote tribal area no DHL or FEDEX ships to here. Need it real bad, because in June mountain passes will open, chance to get into really interesting areas in Spiti, Lahaul valleys.
What are you doing?
It sounds more like looking for ore rather than triage of alloys?
There may be a better traditional method for assay or field test.

main target is gold placers, like in these ones in high sulfidation epithermal springs
http://maps.google.com/?q=33.224876,78.307448&hl=en&gl=gb
but many other interesting minerals deposits exists here mostly, unknown to civilization.
with passes remains open for 4-5 months per year, no time for filed tests unless it is XRF. Collecting samples not easy too. Sometime you have to carry it in backpacks first, then horses, then car. Just to learn back home that most (or all of it) of these ward work is a total waste. In such situation, best option just test it n place by XRF and leave it where it is.
I would highly recommend you talk to some of the prospectors on the board.
Placer deposits only need a pan to check for value,hard rock you might find an XRF of use but a nice centrally located base you can do fire assays would be much more effective than XRF.
There is a reason Fire assay is the back bone of the industry.It gets all the value and is bombproof. ,and it cost's a fraction of the investment.
 
Justin, thanks for your inputs, much apresiated. each area has its own specifics, not only geological, but access, roads, or hydropower dams, avalanch barriers, which are man made gold traps. as result of these technological marwels, errected everywhere alluvial gold on sharp decline in the main basin. hardrock gold also different, in some area it can be huge mother lodes, but here we have small veins, but in large number and mostly in areas with very difficult access and no roads. without taking in account all these local futures one can spend whole life here and find nothing absolutely, also because all these hard to reach arears had benn searched extensively by nomads with goats for last few thousand years. and those nomads knows how to pan well.
 
Snowman2 said:
Justin, thanks for your inputs, much apresiated. each area has its own specifics, not only geological, but access, roads, or hydropower dams, avalanch barriers, which are man made gold traps. as result of these technological marwels, errected everywhere alluvial gold on sharp decline in the main basin. hardrock gold also different, in some area it can be huge mother lodes, but here we have small veins, but in large number and mostly in areas with very difficult access and no roads. without taking in account all these local futures one can spend whole life here and find nothing absolutely, also because all these hard to reach arears had benn searched extensively by nomads with goats for last few thousand years. and those nomads knows how to pan well.
So have you invested in a good 4x4 drilling rig?
I bet the goat herders have not managed to test 20-50 feet below the surface :lol:
 
justinhcase said:
Snowman2 said:
Justin, thanks for your inputs, much apresiated. each area has its own specifics, not only geological, but access, roads, or hydropower dams, avalanch barriers, which are man made gold traps. as result of these technological marwels, errected everywhere alluvial gold on sharp decline in the main basin. hardrock gold also different, in some area it can be huge mother lodes, but here we have small veins, but in large number and mostly in areas with very difficult access and no roads. without taking in account all these local futures one can spend whole life here and find nothing absolutely, also because all these hard to reach arears had benn searched extensively by nomads with goats for last few thousand years. and those nomads knows how to pan well.
So have you invested in a good 4x4 drilling rig?
I bet the goat herders have not managed to test 20-50 feet below the surface :lol:

fundamentally correct observation Justin. everything visible on surface already taken. and because exploration investments is highly risky business, only one from 5000 exploration projects is able to generate any returns. my strategy is to keep investment low and search area as wide as possible. electro magnetic survey by drone next on my shopping list, that is how kimberlites and subsequently dimonds had been discovered in Kalahari Desert in Botswana. but again restrictions, powerfull drones only can be sold to government in India and importation near impossibly too.
 
DR. A. M. HERON wrote in 1930
"Himalayan Journal vol.02"

"THE GEM-STONES OF THE HIMALAYA

THE Himalayan region is strikingly poor in minerals of economic value. As the valleys and the lower ranges are well-populated and constantly traversed by keen-eyed hillmen herding stock or on shikar, there is little likelihood that important deposits of well-known or conspicuous minerals can have escaped notice in the more frequented tracts. It is otherwise, however, in the case of rarer minerals, the uses of which are unknown to the people, and in the remote and untravelled wilderness near the realm of snow, where much may still be undiscovered. "
 
You are correct, in that you can cover large areas relatively quickly. When using it to sample soils, soil moisture can affect the readings, but maybe not enough when you are merely screening soils to determine the areas that warrant additional investigation. Note that the certified soil sample is usually a dried homogeneous material placed into a canister with a clear piece of cellophane (cannot remember the specific material) on the side you sample from. The results of your soil samples may be off if the samples aren't prepped correctly. Again, it may not be that important when just screening soils.

It is a good idea to explore and truly understand the limitations of the equipment and sampling methodology. It can be frustrating to learn of these limitations when you are in the field. That reminds me, extra batteries are a good investment.

Although it sounds like you have knowledge about XRFs, many may not know that improper use of an XRF can subject the user or even an innocent bystander to unsafe levels of x-rays. Before I was able to use the XRF, I had to take a radiation safety training course offered by a XRF manufacturer years back and it really opened my eyes with respect to the safety aspect. I know that Thermo Scientific has a free and very good on-line training course that covers XRF radiation safety. It can be found on their training portal.
 
geedigity said:
You are correct, in that you can cover large areas relatively quickly. When using it to sample soils, soil moisture can affect the readings, but maybe not enough when you are merely screening soils to determine the areas that warrant additional investigation. Note that the certified soil sample is usually a dried homogeneous material placed into a canister with a clear piece of cellophane (cannot remember the specific material) on the side you sample from. The results of your soil samples may be off if the samples aren't prepped correctly. Again, it may not be that important when just screening soils.

It is a good idea to explore and truly understand the limitations of the equipment and sampling methodology. It can be frustrating to learn of these limitations when you are in the field. That reminds me, extra batteries are a good investment.

Although it sounds like you have knowledge about XRFs, many may not know that improper use of an XRF can subject the user or even an innocent bystander to unsafe levels of x-rays. Before I was able to use the XRF, I had to take a radiation safety training course offered by a XRF manufacturer years back and it really opened my eyes with respect to the safety aspect. I know that Thermo Scientific has a free and very good on-line training course that covers XRF radiation safety. It can be found on their training portal.

every technooogy has its limits. Olympus XRF guys even advice to disable gold on Vanta, because sensetivity of any modern XRF is not enough to detect gold in most ores. Plus false positives, so yes better have some plan 'B'.
my plan 'B' is using device for buying artisans gold and cons and old ethnic jewellery for refinement. that will pay for device in few months.
 
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