a refining idea

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troymoore4

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
9
i was wondering if you could heat gold to its boiling point for the sake of burning off more impurity. once you get it to 90 something percent pure that is.
 
The simple answer is no!
You can remove some impurities with high temperatures, but if you want to attain high purity you need to use chemicals, sorry no easy way.
If you don't want to or can't face using chemicals simply buy and sell, always leave some margin for others.
 
Also, gold boils at 2790°C (5378°F). If you have the money to invest in something that gets that hot, you have enough money for chemical refining ;)
 
Actually, in a way the answer is "yes."

Look up the "Miller Chlorination Process" or "Miller Process for gold refining." Chlorine gas is sparged through molten impure gold in order to chlorinate the impurities, which boil off and leave purified gold behind. So, in a way, the gold is purified by boiling off the impurities (except the impurities need to be chlorides, which have a low boiling point relative to metallic gold).

Careful operation of the Miller Process results in 99 - 99.5% pure gold (called "fine") and in special circumstances 99.9 - 99.95% purity. Industrially, another refining process (typically electrorefining) is normally used to make 99.99+ gold after initial Miller refining.

The great disadvantage is that the process itself is terribly ugly - dealing with pure chlorine gas and various metal chloride vapors is horrible. Even with very good ventilation, some of the condensed chlorides make sticky deposits that require lots of scraping and chipping before they choke off the exhaust pipes. In any case, it isn't a process that anyone should or could attempt in their backyards, unless they want to kill themselves, their families and their neighbors.
 
jason_recliner said:
If one had the equipment, and inclination, to take gold to its boiling point, then it follows that it could be distilled.
That'd be one hell of a moonshine.

The equipment required to vaporize gold and then recover it is not cheap. Vacuum furnaces are expensive, usually require long heating time if a tube furnace for example, and deposit vaporized gold on any surface it can adhere to.

A metal condensing could coil, such that is used in stills or retort furnaces, most likely become clogged with deposited gold after several uses.

Far better and less expensive to just simy make colloidal gold.

Scott
 
troymoore4 said:
i was wondering if you could heat gold to its boiling point for the sake of burning off more impurity. once you get it to 90 something percent pure that is.

Simply using borax in the correct way can and does remove impurities, metal oxides. Adding oxygen helps this process along.

During the gold rush, miners would grind Ore concentrates, and then flux with borax and sometimes the addition of others materials such as glass, loading the charge with half the borax at the bottom of the crucible, and then Ore concentrate/gold, then half the borax charge on top. As the mixture heats, the borax lowers the overall melting temperature of all metals and minerals present. As the minerals decompose to their elemental form, the oxides of these elements rise to the top where they then can be elected off, or a spoon like tong used to remove the impurities, metal oxides. This process produces a relatively high purity of gold.

No need to invent the wheel.

To get better results, wet chemistry, or electrochemistry in today's world is the method most commonly used.

"Boiling gold" is not a good idea, the equipment would be very expensive, as would the process be, and would require much more work and effort on the part of the refiner.

Scott
 
Alrighty, but I had another thought. Imagine, for example, you have a 5gal. bucket full of 'gold fingers' you removed from scrapped computer memory chips. Is it possible to just heat it all up to a point where the non-metalic components will burn off an leave the metallic parts unharmed? Using, of course, the proper tools/supplies to do so.
 
troymoore4 said:
Alrighty, but I had another thought. Imagine, for example, you have a 5gal. bucket full of 'gold fingers' you removed from scrapped computer memory chips. Is it possible to just heat it all up to a point where the non-metalic components will burn off an leave the metallic parts unharmed? Using, of course, the proper tools/supplies to do so.
So now you're talking about the combustion and/or boiling point of base metals. Most of those metals and oxides are things you don't want to breathe or release into the air. As Scott said:
NobleMetalWorks said:
Simply using borax in the correct way can and does remove impurities, metal oxides. Adding oxygen helps this process along.
 
I meant the non metallic pieces of circuit board that the metals are attached to so that nothing but the metallic components are left behind.
 
troymoore4,
Forget what you think might happen, and learn what happens.

You can incinerate the organic material, but keep in mind the the amount of toxins produced, many reactive metals can oxidize and burn off as deadly toxins, deadly acids and many very dangerous compounds are formed from burning electronic materials, which will not only poison the soil, air, the trees, and everything around you but can also poison you and your family, some of these poisons may linger in the area for years to come.

I feel you are wasting your time asking these questions, your time is much better spent studying, you will learn much more than you could ever think of to ask. and the answers you find will be much more valuable in answering any question you may have.
 
These questions are part of the research I am doing. I figure its better to do a lot of research and also ask of thosevwith more knowledge/experience than I have so thastvwhen I actually start, I will be better armed/equipped information wise.
 
Then you need to research about legality of incinerating PCB (printed circuit board) in some quantities. It is illegal pretty much anywhere in the western countries. That is why it is shipped and done in africa or asia.
 
troymoore4 said:
These questions are part of the research I am doing. I figure its better to do a lot of research and also ask of thosevwith more knowledge/experience than I have so thastvwhen I actually start, I will be better armed/equipped information wise.

You would be better off using the forum for its archive of information which covers all the questions you have asked.
You want one to one training in refining then I hope you have deep pockets,it's available, you want to spend the time reading and learning it's free, all the time.
The choice is yours study or spend, if you study you will learn amazing chemistry and maybe a future in recovery and refining or perhaps a fascinating hobby, if you want to get rich quick take my advice and work on Wall Street because this is no way to do it.
No one here gets paid to help and constant questions about how to or can I will earn you no favours with the members, read and study, get stuck ask questions, it's a simple rule we adhere to, most of the guys that responded can answer all your questions but they learned how to, it's now your turn.
 
troymoore4 said:
These questions are part of the research I am doing. I figure its better to do a lot of research and also ask of thosevwith more knowledge/experience than I have so thastvwhen I actually start, I will be better armed/equipped information wise.

You are not really researching at all, you are asking for answers to questions which you should at least be aware enough, if you were far enough in your research, to realize they are not good questions. Research first, ask for clarification once you have a good solid base understanding and knowledge.

Most people inquire for clarification, not to be held by the hand, and told why their ideas are not viable.

You might serve your purpose far better by asking your questions, first, in the search bar or by using Google search. Then bread the information and if needed, asking for clarification. We help each other on this forum, but that doesn't mean posting all your questions for answers without doing any of the research yourself.

Scott
 
With respect sir, you do not know what/how I am doing my research,nso please do not say I am not researching at all based on the questions I ask here. While I am the first to admit there's is much I don't know, I do know that if you want the answers you have to ask the questions. Had you asked me about my research I would have to!d you that so far aqua regia seems to be the best cost/output option I have found yet. The questions I ask here are based solely on random ideas that occur to me that might speed up the process or increase the purity of yield.. You can say what you wish, but I will continue to ask questions even if they seem a bit stupid and/or silly. I figure it is better to ask and learn the easy way rather than to try and fail otherwise. After all,the dumbest question is not one that is asked, it is the one that was not asked.
 
troymoore4 said:
, I do know that if you want the answers you have to ask the questions.

Nope, usually best answered by reading.

troymoore4 said:
aqua regia seems to be the best cost/output option

Nope, depends on your material and is generally going to come in after you spend A LOT of time on other processes first to segragate and remove base metals.

Please take this from one of the newer guys to another. Slow down. Take the time to learn what procedures work for any given material. Learn why said procedures work. Learn how they work. Learn this before trying to create your own.

You can't build a house without a good foundation. Do keep that curiosity and wonder alive as you study. Who knows, once you do learn enough you may see something that countless others haven't. But without that foundation you are just stacking bricks on mud.

Learn to fly the thing before you take off in it!

Butcher's helicopter
 
troymoore4 said:
With respect sir, you do not know what/how I am doing my research,nso please do not say I am not researching at all based on the questions I ask here. While I am the first to admit there's is much I don't know, I do know that if you want the answers you have to ask the questions. Had you asked me about my research I would have to!d you that so far aqua regia seems to be the best cost/output option I have found yet. The questions I ask here are based solely on random ideas that occur to me that might speed up the process or increase the purity of yield.. You can say what you wish, but I will continue to ask questions even if they seem a bit stupid and/or silly. I figure it is better to ask and learn the easy way rather than to try and fail otherwise. After all,the dumbest question is not one that is asked, it is the one that was not asked.

Actually, the saying goes, "The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked". I ask myself questions all the time, specially in regards to recovering and refining precious metals, as this is how I make a living.

Research is defined as:

the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions.

Study is defined as:

the devotion of time and attention to acquiring knowledge on an academic subject, especially by means of books.

Asking questions does not mean you must ask someone else questions, as a matter of fact asking questions is part of the scientific method, which is defined as:

a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Asking yourself questions, and then researching, studying, is how we logically think, and then discover the answers we seek. Before I ask any question on the forum, I first research myself. Then, if I need clarification I might ask the question here. You stated:

The questions I ask here are based solely on random ideas

Okay, random ideas, so you are saying that your random ideas are not worth your time, effort and energy to research, yourself, to discover the answers you seek? I ask this because you also stated:

I figure it is better to ask and learn the easy way

So you are looking for an easy way to learn the answers to your random questions that seem to not be worth your time, effort and energy. Do you understand how that might seem to be contrary to the intent of this forum? Nothing wrong asking question, but you would probably find your own answers to these questions if you just simply read what has already been posted on this forum. And it's so easy to simply pop your question into the search bar. As a matter of fact, you probably will find the answers much faster if you just simply searched for the answer first, as it's already written and archived most likely, on this site. Or if not, a simply Google search works as well.

I am not sure why you feel entitled in the way you seem to. Can you imagine what this forum might be like if everyone that ever wondered about some random idea that popped into their head, then asked those questions here instead of researching them on their own first? It would be a morass of random questions.

I am suggesting that you would serve your purpose better, much better in fact, by truly researching questions you have, before asking them, getting answers, and then asking more. Also, when asking questions that do not relate to your original post, you might do well to start a new thread. People who come after you, who do use the search function will find it far easier to find answers that have been answered in your threads, rather than mulling through the entire thread to find the clarification they seek.

If you have read very much on this forum it's also strongly suggested, many times over, to pick up a free copy of
Refining Precious Metals Wastes by CM. Hoke
and read it. I am suggesting you do this for these reasons. The book will answer many of the questions you might have, for example, you would know about the incarceration process, and also know that it might be applied to what you have asked in this thread. The other reason is that you would learn the terminology we use on this forum. It might seem like another language, and it might take some learning on your part but once you have read Hoke, and learned the terminology we use, you will be able to use the search function far better than not because you will know the correct terms to use to search by. If you type, for example,
incineration electronics
, you might discover a wealth of posts on the subject, how to do it safely and properly, what mistakes to avoid, the laws that might affect you doing so, and more. Asking here will lead to many of these answers that already are archived here, and might also expose you to even more that you otherwise would not have been because you didn't ask those questions.

I am not a book, nor is anyone else that has posted in this thread. We are more than willing to help those, as is evident in post after post on this forum. But when you see the same questions over and over again posted from those who seem to believe they are entitled to answers, and then call that research as you have, well you can just imagine.

When you ask random questions that is not research, that is asking for someone to tell you because you believe it's the easy way of getting an answer. When you make it clear and evident that you are not willing to put forth the effort to search for the answers to your questions yourself, it causes those of us who might have answered very similar if not exact questions in the past to give pause and think twice about answering you.

Please, don't be lazy, really do your research and then if you have a question that has not yet been answered on this forum, and you cannot find it in a book or by using Google search, then ask us here. But in the spirit of refiners helping refiners, you just seem to be looking for someone to hold your hand and give you what you otherwise should probably earn all on your own, and easily enough at that.

Scott
 
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