Accumulating boards for batch processing via refiner

Upon learning that I can send in a load less than 30,000 lbs, I want to do it!

My question is where I set my bottom value.

From my reading, it appears that the standard cost to process is around $1.00 / lb, and you only get paid on the copper on down the reactivity series.

So boards with lots of aluminum, steel, etc should be cleaned some first, both to not cost you $1.00 / lb, as well as since you won't be getting paid on the metal.

So a couple of questions...

1) Going by the standard "boardsort" grading....if something is going to fall in midgrade, that is, less populated with gold bearing scrap and more with junk...do you even toss it in? At best you MAY break even on the copper content.

2) Transformers - Worth it or not? I can get .25/lb for them clean, but I'm not sure they'll yield $1.30/lb in copper.

3) What do you do with your junk midgrade/brown board? How about copper bearing scrap? Aluminum breakage?

4) Does it generally work out to toss copper in there? i haven't paid attention to copper scrapping rates in many years. I'm not sure how much under spot the local yard is bying it for.

5) What is your cutoff (and this is personal) for what you will process vs what you trust them to fairly represent and pay you for. Do you trust (your processor) enough to dump in a box of ceramic CPU's? A box of BGA's? 100 lbs of scrap memory? Or do you simply use them as a means to get paid for your scrap (ie, depopulated boards, etc).

6) Finally, are you using statistical analysis of any sort to try to determine approximately what your boards are averaging?

How much money do you have to throw at this and wait?

I have heard its at least a 45 day turn around. I am interested in seeing the answers to these exact questions though as I am in process of starting a recycling center, I hope. I figure if I am getting better prices for hundreds of pounds, then thousands of pounds should push me into the next bracket.

anachronism said:

How much money do you have to throw at this and wait?

Click to expand...

I spend less on this than the average person spends on smokes and beer....but yet my pile keeps growing. There are no good places around here to sell to, unless I want to ship to Cleveland area. I'm not exactly in a hurry, so what's the difference between a check in a week or a check in 90 days...other than 83 days?

Plus, once you remove anything from a board, it's downgraded so quickly that you might as well toss it in the bin. Scrap buyers never have anything positive to say about the product they are buying.

So I guess the answer is, "enough".

No, honestly. How much are you talking about? What kind of investment are you looking at making. It's important because it determines whether or not you're looking at a viable project or not.

anachronism said:

No, honestly. How much are you talking about? What kind of investment are you looking at making. It's important because it determines whether or not you're looking at a viable project or not.

Click to expand...

I'd likely be looking at a gaylord a month, so 1-2000 lbs. While I can bump up the quantity a little, can't do it much until I add on to my garage. The money isn't as hard to come by as the space.

If youre looking at genuinely sending to a refiner then 1-2000 pounds per month isn't going to work I'm afraid.

Interesting...

So when you sell a 1,000 lb batch to SIPI, are they just paying you to get you to go away? A quick visual, "this is close enough that we'll be safe and they'll be happy, if they don't know the real results"

If you can turn a profit carry on so long as you don't mind the refiner making more than you.

nickvc said:

If you can turn a profit carry on so long as you don't mind the refiner making more than you.

Click to expand...

Isn't that how life works? The higher up the ladder you climb, the more screwing you do and less time getting screwed?...and the further you have to fall.

I don't see you getting 2k lbs. in even a large Gaylord unless your throwing in a lot of scrap copper. I get between 1000 and 1200 lbs. per Gaylord. I pick off the stuff I want to process myself and throw the rest in the Gaylord boxes. I throw ALL boards in the boxes and plenty of copper bits just to make sure the refinery doesn't have to add copper to the melt to make it homogeneous. If I sold my boards to a person, I could see segregating them by grade but I don't even like to think about separating all the different types of boards and scrap I get in, I'm fine with shaking my head at that. I get all kinds of scrap in, not just boards and much of it is silver plated copper and brass and it all goes in with the boards and the refinery is fine with that. They even let me throw in small lcd screens, not laptop or desktop size and cable ends.

I remove as much non-value items I can or have time to remove like plastic, aluminum, steal and whatever else. For every pound you can take off in plastic, you'll save $1.00 per pound at the refinery. For every pound of aluminum I take off I see it as saving the buck a pound plus what I get for selling the aluminum. Say I have 500 lbs of heat sinks, that's aluminum extrusions at .40 per pound plus the dollar per pound I save at the refinery because I took it off, is $1.40 per pound for aluminum extrusions and that would be $700 on the 500lbs, plus I didn't have to haul them to Chicago for nothing. I also get in the Gaylords periodically and jump on the boards so I can get more in each box. Same with all the capacitors, take them off, save the dollar per pound plus sell them as breakage. Be efficient at it, if you can save money somewhere in your process save it, if you can make money somewhere, make it. The bulk of this battle is knowing what to do with the stuff we get, ie; finding a market.

By the way, 1000 to 2000 lbs. per month is fine. Just save up the Gaylords until you have at least 10,000 lbs. and the refining charge goes down to .80 per pound and puts 2k more in your pocket. I've been happy with Sipi and the 45 day settlements.

A gaylord a month is a lot of equipment to be tearing down. If you are doing this in a garage, like you say, space will be a huge problem. 2000 pounds of assorted PCB's in a gaylord is a unheard of weight, even if you hand stack them in. Small boards like HDD, Memory, ect. yes, but if you are going to be mixing in motherboards, fingercards, etc. good luck. There are pros and cons both on both ways, but anymore, we just sell to a buyer and take our money and run. When you are small, capitol is everything and you will find it fustrating waiting for your check from your refiner.

snoman701 said:

. The money isn't as hard to come by as the space.

Click to expand...

Must be a nice problem to have.

anachronism said:

rickbb said:

snoman701 said:

. The money isn't as hard to come by as the space.

Click to expand...

Must be a nice problem to have.

Click to expand...

Even if it is, then fair play there's nothing wrong with being honest.

Click to expand...

It's more a statement about earning potential. If I see something I want, I go get it.

I'm a dreamer, but I'm also a do-er.

So it's not like I'm loaded...but if I decide I'm going to do something, I usually do whatever I need to do, to do it.

I'm yet to "want" to pay off my student loans, or drive a nice car, etc.

Responsibility is what determines what you "want". In fact, I spent way too much time goofing around with this stuff last month, and right now I'm short.

I don't envy people with trust funds...you make important memories while struggling, and you meet your best friends when you fail.

Great attitude snoman. I have pretty much looked at life the same way. Jack of all trades and a master of none is a good description of myself. I have learned how to do many things just because they fascinated me. Then I caught the gold fever and have been sick with it ever since, ha ha.

snoman701 said:

I don't envy people with trust funds...you make important memories while struggling, and you meet your best friends when you fail.

Click to expand...

Envy is a terrible thing. I couldn't agree more. Usually manifests from people who haven't taken their chances in life, but blame the people who have, for their failures.