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im1badpup1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
90
Its an online goldrush for cryptocurrencies. The top ones have been running at 1000%s return of investment per annum and it looks set to continue.

Dont believe the banks. They said it was a waste of money 5 years ago where a £10 layout wouldve made you a millionare today- twice over!

The banks say cryptocurrency bubble will burst. But it may be the banking bubble bursts instead. Thatll hyperinflate cryptocurrency by several million % .

Oh a sign if it will be investors flooding into precious metals for a 'solid' investment something they can touch and hold. Meaning good prices for us!
 
It's a massive market - one we're actively involved in too. The banks want control of it hence all the doom and gloom.
 
Stick 20 quid in each the top 5 cryptocurrencies jon. Its nothing to lose. If history repeats itself this year a couple of the smaller ones should return over 1000% per annum
 
If I were to invest in cryptocurrency (I am not!), I would buy the one that has solved BitCoins anonimity problem.... I mean it was huge selling point back when it first started, but for any cryptocurrency to take permanent place in global economy, accountability must be built in to its core design.... Other than that I think blockchain technology is here to stay and 100% it will have a role to play in our future.... But I would stear clear of BitCoin, the bubble has already started to burst...
 
im1badpup1 said:
Stick 20 quid in each the top 5 cryptocurrencies jon. Its nothing to lose. If history repeats itself this year a couple of the smaller ones should return over 1000% per annum

We're mining mate and trading. 8)
 
Well, bubble bursting talk never gets old. We hear it since bitcoin was 1$ each. I call it buyers regret. Or better said non-buyers regret.
Crypto's made me more money than all my gold refining combined. Many times over and I did refine some gold. :mrgreen:

I do currently mine coin which makes me 1300$ a month with a modest rig with just 5 gpu. There are not entirely unfounded expectations that this particular coin appreciates value 10 fold within this year. Who knows...
 
Hi!
Do you use sepecialized hardware, or just what comes in the door as part of buisiness?
And do you mine one currency or mutiple?
I have been on the brink of starting Bitcoin a few times, but now I'm leaning towards Monero or similar.
They are earlier in the cycle.
Any recommendations?
 
We've been mining monero in rigs for 3.5 months. We've now got over 100 of them and when we started they were at $80. At $80 we were making approx $2000 per month net profit after electricity costs. Today's price is $420 each. We're also mining some of the cheap nasty new ones because you can mine a lot of those fast and they have the best "pump and dump" growth.
 
There are coins which can be mined with pretty much anything like with just cpu even. Unfortunately with crypto as with everything else the more money you put in the more you can make.
I do use probably the best gpu at the moment for monero which is amd radeon vega. Vega56 or Vega64 it does not matter really. However, they shoot up in value and are pretty much sold out everywhere.

You do have 2 options here.
1. You utilize a computer which you do have and it is on 24/7. You can let it mine in the background using cpu and gpu and it can make you some money in long-term. (XMR, BCN, AEON just to name few)
2. You bite the bullet and build dedicated mining rig with several gpu's. That one could make you more money and faster. You can combine mining income with trading to increase returns.

Specialized hardware is required for coins like BTC, LTC, Dash - which utilize asic chips. Regular gpu or cpu is not a match to asics.

I try to stick with one coin for couple days as mining reward usually go higher if you stick with one pool and one coin. Sort of a reward scheme to say it simply. It also depends on personal choice - what coin you think will perform better. There are sites which can compute which coin is the best to mine at the specific time. You can input hardware you plan to use, cost of electricity and you will see what may be the best option for you.
http://www.whattomine.com

My rig and choice of coins I mined resulted in /3 of my investment back within 6 weeks. I calculated with 100% ROI within 3 months but it seems I was luckier so far than I thought I will be, and I can expect to have ROI within next 2 weeks so in 2 months total. Which is a very good outcome.
 
How much bandwidth do you need to set these up?

My internet is less reliable than dialup on a party line of olden days.
 
patnor1011 said:
Or better said non-buyers regret

I won't argue, who doesn't wish he could turn 20 bucks in to hundreds of thousands, still by now its akin to wishing that I could've bought Apple stock back in 80'ties... :) but if we are discussing here and now - do you really think BTC is worthwhile investment? Do you, personally,
expect it's value to go back up? (it's already down a bit from it's peak few weaks ago)? Almost all of the opinion pieces I've read on the internet are prognosing BTC value either plummeting down, or climbing sky-high. Latter is only likely if BTC becomes THE cryptocurrency of the future... How likely do you think it is with all the apparent problems surfacing, like anonimity or diminishing returns of miners (without enough miners whole system collapses...). How long do you think till there comes along better designed blockchain based cryptocurrency? If I understood you correctly neither you nor other people in this thread are mining BTC currently.... I am not being rhetorical, it is interesting discussion to be Had :). Another point I would like to propose is that the recent spike in BTC value is due to larger coin holders intentionaly pumping up it's percieved value (by buying press releases for example, etc. ) to dump them on New hopefull buyers...
 
niks neims said:
If I understood you correctly neither you nor other people in this thread are mining BTC currently.... I am not being rhetorical,

You'd be correct. There's absolutely no point in mining Bitcoin right now.
 
anachronism said:
There's absolutely no point in mining Bitcoin right now.
Thank you, my point exactly :) I also have heard that by now eaven mining with dedicated gear doesn't pay for electricity consumed... So what is the saving grace of BTC, for what possible reason it's value would go up exept for market fluctuations due to speculation - the definition of the bubble, it could end only one way... I am in no way dissing cryptocurrency or blockchain principle in general but I would not suggest to anyone to get into BTC at this point in time, especially since there are great cryptocurrency alternatives :)
 
Current mining hardware is very efficient and turning up quite profit to anyone who owns it. Every new bitcoin mining computer vanishes within minutes it hit shelves. I would say bitcoin can be compared to gold in a sense that it will not be used as a currency or for day to day transactions but rather as a store of value of some sorts or as an investment vehicle. It fluctuates rather wildly but that is what we call market as opposed to what we see with precious metals - they are being in a stranglehold of few banks. If only physical gold which is in existence would be freely traded we would see even bigger price swings or price increase than what we see in bitcoin today. The market, be it shares, stocks, commodities you name it is no longer about price discovery or real sentiment out there but it is what few people decide they want it to be. It is called "regulation" but it is just another name of manipulation. Market manipulation is not a conspiracy theory but proven fact.
The question then is what do you want? Chance of going in a risk on your own decision with the possibility of making a killing or quiet life where everything will be decided and predetermined for you long in advance (90% of the people in this scenario are expected to be born poor, live miserably and to die even poorer).
The bigger the risk the better reward - if you get it right.
If you would look hard enough then pretty much everything you can think about can be called bubble.
 
snoman701 said:
How much bandwidth do you need to set these up?

My internet is less reliable than dialup on a party line of olden days.

Bandwidth is negligent. An uninterrupted connection is more desired than crazy speed but even that is not requirement as mining software is designed to reconnect automatically in case of lost connection. If you experience outages then mining coins with pools supporting PPS may be better option than PPLNS where later require consistency - the longer you mine the better reward. Shoot me a pm we can talk about it and I can help you set it all up.
 
anachronism said:
niks neims said:
If I understood you correctly neither you nor other people in this thread are mining BTC currently.... I am not being rhetorical,

You'd be correct. There's absolutely no point in mining Bitcoin right now.

I would expand this as it is not entirely correct statement in itself.
There is no point in mining Bitcoin with anything which is not specifically designed to mine BTC. Like cpu or gpu.
Every new BTC mining hardware is very affordable and can repay itself within 2-3 months top like it is the case with bitmain antminer s9 which is the most current one. Problem is they sell out as soon as they are produced. There is no chance to buy it for 1800-2400$ which was the original price from the manufacturer. The only units you can buy are from people who bought more and resell them for profit usually for 3x of the original price.
There is so much demand for them that some manufacturers do not deal with people who want one piece and do have minimum requirement of 60 units if you want to buy them. Antminer sell them in form of presale batches with delivery delayed by months in some cases.
If mining BTC would be uneconomical nobody would buy any so the opposite is the case, it just cost more to get on that train. That is why a lot of people do mine alternative cryptocurrencies.

So yes, there is absolutely no point in mining Bitcoin right now.*
*unless you do have the proper hardware to do so.
 
You're right Pat I was too black and white in the reply.

By the way guys Pat's knowledge on this topic is pretty darned good. Yeah I do it as part of my business, but I'm not the brains behind it.
 
patnor1011 said:
Current mining hardware is very efficient and turning up quite profit to anyone who owns it. Every new bitcoin mining computer vanishes within minutes it hit shelves. I would say bitcoin can be compared to gold in a sense that it will not be used as a currency or for day to day transactions but rather as a store of value of some sorts or as an investment vehicle. It fluctuates rather wildly but that is what we call market as opposed to what we see with precious metals - they are being in a stranglehold of few banks. If only physical gold which is in existence would be freely traded we would see even bigger price swings or price increase than what we see in bitcoin today. The market, be it shares, stocks, commodities you name it is no longer about price discovery or real sentiment out there but it is what few people decide they want it to be. It is called "regulation" but it is just another name of manipulation. Market manipulation is not a conspiracy theory but proven fact.
The question then is what do you want? Chance of going in a risk on your own decision with the possibility of making a killing or quiet life where everything will be decided and predetermined for you long in advance (90% of the people in this scenario are expected to be born poor, live miserably and to die even poorer).
The bigger the risk the better reward - if you get it right.
If you would look hard enough then pretty much everything you can think about can be called bubble.

Pat,

So very, very true.

Also, very, very sad if you aren't aware of it.

Thank you for such a spot on summary! :D

James
 
patnor1011

first let me say that you have already impressed me immensely with your selfless contribution to GRF by your IC thread alone, so please forgive me that I must strongly disagree with you on this one, not on the risk taking - decision making part, but on specifically Bitcoin being a great investment or that anyone should consider getting in to the Bitcoin mining game at this point in time....

then again I may just be misinformed, and your knowledge on subject is obviously superior, so if you don`t mind, could you educate me a bit?

1. when using top tier specialized mining gear - what are average power consumption? for example kWh/BTC. What are average time spent to mine one BTC per one device?
2. Do I understand correctly that for any transaction via BTC to be verified (accepted) the current blockchain must be solved by some miner and proven to be correct (excuse me if I am rambling in terminology - in laymans terms - for transaction to be complete some miner (or many miners together) somewhere must verify it?)?
3. To motivate miners to do their work and keep system going by mining (or verifying transactions) it genereates new BTC as reward, but to combat possible inflation each new BTC is much harder to mine?
4. For system to have any integrity there must be many unrelated miners, all agreeing on current blockchains being correct?
5. Irregardless on how many BTC are being transferred there is the same amount of work involved in proofing of transaction?
6. How many BTC transactions are happening in world currently on average (transactions per hour, amount of BTC changing hands per hour)?
7. What are current wait-times for a transaction to be completed/verified? Are there any projections for future wait-times if system grows? How does it compares cost-vise and time-vise to the traditional money circulation (bank transfer, paypal etc.)?
8. What happens when (not if) work of proving the transaction far outweighs value of BTC being awarded for said work? Is there any plan of action or consensus in BTC mining community on this question?
9. What happens when due to diminishing returns of mining there is concentration of mining power in few mayor players, say mining farms in politically sensitive regions like China or Russia - does that not threaten system integrity?
10. What happens if there is a disagreement on blockchain integrity, must every user check for solution themselves (as I understand it is much quicker and easier to check that chain is correct than to solve for a new one, but still...)?
11. What happens if, due to a lack of miners, wait times surpass threshold to be useful in daily transactions or there is cost-of-transaction implemented that is greater than traditional money transfer costs?
12. Do you really think that a system of exchange of values (currency) can exist on global scale in our civilized world where there is no way of accountability? I mean there is cash, of course, but most civilized nations in the world regulate cash deals very strictly, and with very good reasons. So basically, what happens if by some miracle BTC is officially universaly recognized and must come in to the fold of global economy, who is accountable, who can prevent or investigate criminal transactions, or even more prosaic, how are taxation implemented?

Also I must strongly disagree that BTC is or can be used for store of value, I would bet that >90% of current BTC owners are treating it as short term investment hoping to cash in on price changes, it makes the global BTC market very very unstable...
For Bitcoin to have any inherent value besides the speculative hype there must be some usefulness it offers to the world, a greater good if you will. It would be the case if BTC could become the one main cryptocurrency of the future, but as it stands, I just don`t see it happening. I mean, yes, it was the first (major) one, it basically introduced the world to the technology of blockchain and to the idea of cryptocurrency. But do you really mean to tell me that the old man Satoshi made it perfect in every way on his first try, and that there is no room for improvement? How long till there comes along some better-designed one, one that really can enter our daily lives, easing money circulation as we know it. I bet there is a lot of very bright minds working on it this very moment, and I would be very suprised if there already wouldn`t be plans made for a block-Dollar or chain-Euro; That is for shure, technology is here to stay, and we will use it one way or other, but I for one just can`t see BTC being around for much longer with all of it`s inherent flaws... and when any other cryptocurrency starts gaining significant ground - BTC will crash and burn, there is no value to it, it is just how the phenomenon of currency works...

tl;dr:
BitCoin, cryptocurrency, dollar, euro, any of the currency has no inherent value at all, just ask any German in 1923 or any Zimbabwean in 2008; Money (currency) by it self is no more valuable than paper that it is printed on... So recognize Bitcoin for what it is = it is a tool (just like any currency) for exchanging values, if it is the best tool (best designed) for the job, then it is here to stay and there is a chance that BTC will hold some of their value, BUT if there is any room for improvement, well lets just hope that there is some gold to e-scrap in them antminers :)
 
How does one spend their Bitcoins if and when the grid goes down?

What does one do if their Bitcoins just "disappear"?
 
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