silver chloride

i have a 200 gms of silver chloride dry cake containing some pecious metal, can i melt it. if yes how
thanks

prats said:

i have a 200 gms of silver chloride dry cake containing some pecious metal, can i melt it. if yes how
thanks

Click to expand...

You really shouldn't have let it dry, why did you let it dry?

Prats, don't heat it up. Fumes are really bad for you, plus as I understand, you'll lose it.

in an old blender and little water only enough to cover the sliver chloride then blend really well and pour into a shallow pyrex then proced to lazersteve's video to convert chlorides I prefer the sulfuric and iron method .(never use the blender for food after this).
then dry then melt (do not breath fumes) then run it in a cell ( look up silver cell )to purify and get the pgm out in the sluge.

Prats:

You can convert your AgCl to metallic silver melting it with some sodium carbonate:

Weight silver chloride,add half of this weight of sodium carbonate,I mean,If you have 200 gr then add 100 gr of sodium carbonate,mix well the powders,put them onto a crucible and fire the torch with the medium flame,point out the torch to the powder and you will see that a green/grey crust is formed on the top,brake the crust and mix it with the powder.When all the powder is converted to crust rise temperature to 1100C,you will get nice and shining metallic silver.

Regards.

Manuel

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank said:

Prats:

You can convert your AgCl to metallic silver melting it with some sodium carbonate:

Weight silver chloride,add half of this weight of sodium carbonate,I mean,If you have 200 gr then add 100 gr of sodium carbonate,mix well the powders,put them onto a crucible and fire the torch with the medium flame,point out the torch to the powder and you will see that a green/grey crust is formed on the top,brake the crust and mix it with the powder.When all the powder is converted to crust rise temperature to 1100C,you will get nice and shining metallic silver.

Regards.

Manuel

Click to expand...

Normally I agree with what you say, but not in this case. It's not that this won't work (if you know what you're doing). It's the hazards I'm concerned about. I knew a man that died from constantly standing over a furnace while converting AgCl to Ag with sodium carbonate. The problem is that the AgCl melts at 455C and, when overheated (easy to do, especially with a torch), produces a lot of very dangerous white fumes.

Personally, I would never do what you suggest unless I were doing it under a very good fume hood. Also, I would doubt if he could get 100% conversion doing this.

There are safer ways to do this. He could make a water slurry of the AgCl by mixing (for quite awhile) in a blender and then use syrup/NaOH or zinc or iron to convert it. Even then, it would be hard to get 100% conversion, since the AgCl is dry and, when it dries, it crystallizes.

GSP,My Dear Friend:

You are right about AgCl fumes,they are deadly toxic.

The trick in this process is adding enough sodium carbonate and mixing well the powder/crust while a solid reaction takes place,of course,torch`s temperature must be regulated.If all these steps are followed no fumes will be released.Here is what I suppose it happens:

Silver chloride is decomposed to silver carbonate and salt,this is the solid reaction that forms the crust:

2AgCl+Na2CO3---------Ag2CO3+2NaCl

Breaking the crust and mixing it well with the powder and heating carefully the mixure will convert all silver chloride to silver carbonate.
Silver carbonate is decomposed into silver oxide and carbon dioxide when temperature raises:

Ag2CO3--------Ag2O+CO2

Well,the rest is easy and fun....silver oxide is reduced to metallic silver and oxygen:

Ag2O-------2Ag+O2

This process may fail if you do not add enough sodium carbonate or if you do not mix the crust formed in the top with the powder mixure of AgCl/Na2CO3,in both cases the result is the formation of nasty gases of AgCl,which are very toxic.

ASAP I promise to post the process,step by step with pictures.

GSP,it is a great honor for me to talk with you.

Kindest regards.

Your friend:
Manuel

I've converted silver chloride by all of the common methods including torch and furnace conversions with soda ash.

The best route hands down for purity, speed, ease of use, and safety is the lye and sugar method.

The key to getting your purity up is to wash thoroughly before and after the conversion process.

The only method I know of that I have not tried is 4Metals formic acid route. I still need to brew some formic acid to test out this process.

Steve

Thank you, Manuel,

Here a somewhat safer method that I've wanted to try. It doesn't look like any AgCl fumes would be released at the temperature that is used. It does require an electric furnace with an accurate temperature readout. There are 2 patents on it.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=qxQwAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Mj06AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

In general, here's what he says:
(1) In a blender, grind and blend each 100 grams of dry silver chloride with 74 grams of anhydrous sodium carbonate.
(2) Put this into shallow ceramic dish and place in a 600C (1,112F) furnace - the patent says from 500C to 650C. He uses a porcelain boat. I would imagine a clay assay roasting dish or scorifying dish would work well. Probably, just a clay assay crucible would work. The time in the furnace is surely dependent on the shape of the vessel and the amount of material being treated. I'm sure the main thing is to get everything up to temperature. During the reaction, there are CO2 and O2 gases released. Maybe that's why he used a shallow dish.
(3) After an hour (the time used for the examples in the patent), the temperature is lowered to 100C (212F) and the material is pulverized.
(4) After washing with water to dissolve the unreacted sodium carbonate and the NaCl that is produced from the reaction, you are left with pure silver powder, assuming the AgCl was pure to start with.

Pretty simple.

Hi
Is melting silver sulfate with soda ash safe ? Or it is dangerous like silver chloride ?

Iron in the melt will oxidize to a sulfide, reducing silver in the melt.

Iron will reduce the silver salt (silver sulfide) to silver metal, the iron will oxidize to a salt of iron sulfides (oxidized iron and other metal oxides into slag glass formed with the flux).

Here the soda ash (sodium carbonate) would only try to reduce the iron, and remove oxides, either from metals or atmosphere of the melt...
The soda ash in the flux would also help in the slag forming of glass with the glass formers in the flux (crushed glass, borax, quartz...), it can be somewhat harsh on crucibles (if the flux is not balanced) fluxes can be oxidizing or reducing. I may be getting off subject somewhat.

Nails in the melt, silver will not alloy with iron or its salts or oxides.

butcher said:

Iron in the melt will oxidize to a sulfide, reducing silver in the melt.

Iron will reduce the silver salt (silver sulfide) to silver metal, the iron will oxidize to a salt of iron sulfides (oxidized iron and other metal oxides into slag glass formed with the flux).

Here the soda ash (sodium carbonate) would only try to reduce the iron, and remove oxides, either from metals or atmosphere of the melt...
The soda ash in the flux would also help in the slag forming of glass with the glass formers in the flux (crushed glass, borax, quartz...), it can be somewhat harsh on crucibles (if the flux is not balanced) fluxes can be oxidizing or reducing. I may be getting off subject somewhat.

Nails in the melt, silver will not alloy with iron or its salts or oxides.

Click to expand...

Thanks
I have some silver sulfate (not sulfide ) in my silver powder so I want to add some soda ash maybe 20 percent of powder weight
I think soda ash is better for me. What do you think ?
You say iron is better ? How much Iron I must use for 100 gram of silver sulfate ?