Topher_osAUrus
Well-known member
I mentioned in the WTB thread I made recently, that they were for a project. I have had a few people message me with offers (thank you all), and a couple that were curious about my plans for them. So I figure I could post a wee bit about what (little bit) I know. As well as what I am going to be using them for, and a couple other things (such as how I charge them, and get the useful energy back out, and into what I want running).
First, I should probably say this-
----******-----
This post, and anything I say in any of my videos is provided "as is" given, without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied. Just because this is how it works for me, and I havent blown up or burned my house down yet, does not mean that you wont accidentally short something and end up killing your goldfish in a fire.... I, personally, nor is the forum responsible for your actions. Please do study before jumping in... electronics should be treated with as much respect as the chemicals in refining. If I am WAY off base, and you have CITED FACTS, please share! I LOVE to learn!
----******-----
The theory
----******-----
Lithium batteries are everywhere nowadays. They have slowly but surely taken over the rechargeable market, killing NiCad dead. There is an endless supply of them in old laptop batteries amongst many many other things. Like phones, tablets...well, anything that you plug in and charge, then take off the mains voltage and it still magically runs... (Please do add any sources that you have found!).
Generally, they are 3.6V-3.7V nominally(except for LiFe, which is 3.2V nominal), Lithium ion and/or LiPo (those 2 are synonymous, if you believe Dave from EEVBlog) get charged up to 4.2V (this number is quite important)
What is more important, is their chemistry. For the most part, they are simply aluminum (aluminium) and copper electrodes with a graphite electrolyte, with very few lithium ions acting as the charge carrier. (Some lithium batteries actually DO have sheets of lithium as the electrode, as far as I know, NO 18650 cells or LiPo cells do
[this was learned on the interweb, to be taken with 1 grain of salt]
LiPo packs
LiPo packs (see attached) are generally found in the compact pocket size tech that we carry with us daily. Our phones tend to have a ruggedized pack, while tablet's are simply packed in their aluminized casing and sealed tight. This makes LiPo packs great for energy density vs. volume, but also leaves them quite vulnerable to puncture when being used in projects. So, obviously, great care must be taken when using LiPo batteries to power other stuff. (puncture it and you are going to have a bad, bad time)
18650 cells
18650 cells (there are other numerations, but these are most abundant), are basically identical to LiPo, except they are housed in a cylindrical shell, which makes them a bit more resilient and also a bit more abundant. These are what I will be focusing my main project on, while I will also be using Lithium Polymer packs for lighting.
HOW they are charged, is pretty critical (allegedly! **1)
I like to use my lab bench power supply to charge them, it has CC/CV as well a over current and over voltage protection, and it allows me to view what the current is dropping down to during the charge.
If they drop below during storage or active discharge 2.5V, they should be charged with a LOW constant current, until they reach around 2.5-2.7V, then, they should be bumped up to 4.2V and charged with constant voltage, (I say allegedly, because the datasheet citation at the bottom of this post, shows some incredible info for what 18650's can withstand) Once the current starts falling to below 10-20 milliamp, I usually take the power off them.
There are several kinds of protection circuit boards for lithium batteries, in fact, most LiPo batteries have them tied in before their power and ground leads. Some 18650's also have a protection circuit built on top the + terminal (which makes them hard to fit into "18650" slots). Should you have batteries that don't have a protection circuit, they are readily available online on eBay for pennies on the dollar, and they make life quite easy, by simply plugging in a usb
("what!?! A USB is 5v" you say?, well, thats where the protection board comes in, which has a buck converter chip on board, to knock down the power to a constant voltage and varied current)
A couple charging boards I have
The charging boards are the small discreet pcb's bottom middle, the left side is a couple boost converters (for taking the 4.2v up to 35, or 120v in the case of the huge black one), the top middle is a boost/buck converter (for dropping power down to a stable voltage, say from 12.x volts from 3, 18650 in series, down to 5v for an Arduino microcontroller) and the two items on the right are two charge capacity checkers/tester units.
HOW they are discharged is not really as critical, so long as their voltage doesn't sink too far below 2.7V, if it does, some of the protection circuits used in charging them (with a usb cable) believe the battery has gone bad and wont charge it up. Depending on the application the battery is used in.
They can release a pretty impressive amount of energy at once, some can drop 4 amps or more for an extended time (until they run out of juice anyways)
POWER BANKS
Power Banks are probably the best way to use 18650 cells, they come in all shapes and sizes, but you can get "DIY" banks from China, for literally a dollar. They come with their own protection circuit in them, and allow you to power anything you want. Literally. The blue and pink one are just standard ones, blue has 2 cells in parallel (adds the amp hours, compared to "in series" which adds the voltage), the pink has 5 all in parallel.
The thin black one is LiPo driven, with a 2.1 and 1 amp output, nothing special..but... The BIG black one is pretty nifty, it is a "laptop charger" and has selectable voltage from 3.6, 5, 9, 12, 15, 19, and 21 and can output 75W at once! beastly... beastly enough to run a power wheel :twisted:
-----------
The Projects
-----------
Firstly, is one that deals zero with refining.
I was given the idea by Jimdoc to use lithium on my sons powerwheels.. Done! Well, not "done" but, I will be soon enough.
I have been getting supplies over the winter (slowly but surely from China), that are going to allow me to run 18650 cells in his dumptruck and use a boost converter to make his truck have some more pep. Along with a pulse width modulation module in series, so I can easily tune it down without having to dig in the battery compartment. I am going to also be running headlights, blinkers, and a stereo in there for him as well. After that, if it goes well (read 'easy'), then his power wheel tractor is next.
After the boys are satisfied with their toys, then it will be time for me to finally making my new fume hood. Since my last one kind of killed itself when moving (it wanted to taste the highway at 65mph), I am going to build a new one. This one will be better, faster, stronger, and most importantly -part of the 21st century-
I want my fume hood to be intuitive, so I am using Arduino to help it, help me.
The first stage of which I will be simply using Arduino to run a relay that runs the fan. A ultrasonic distance sensor will be telling it to kick on or off, depending on if there is anything in the hood on the hotplate, or if there is a bucket in there, or whatever. Part one will also have lighting. I am going to have a PIR (passive infrared sensor) pick up when I am walking up to the hood, and turn on the LED lights. An LDR (light dependant resistor) will determine if it is 1, 2, 3,or 4 rows of LED's that kick on (depending on how much ambient daylight is in the lab)
Having a microcontroller on my hood gives endless possibilities. Stage 2 I will have the hot plate hooked up so it can be controlled from my phone. Stage 2 will have me adding local phone access, via RF communication and then eventually bluetooth. In the end, by projects end (maybe a year or 2 down the line) I will have the hood hooked up in the IoT (internet of things) world via the Wemos D1. When I have it on WiFi, I can then have a camera module on it, sending me pictures via text or email, showing me what the reaction looks like. If it needs some more nitric. I will hit a button on my webserver, which will activate a peristaltic pump and adds a small dose of nitric to the reaction vessel.
There are many many more ideas that I have for making my hood and refining lab a more modern version, but I am only 1 man, and I am taking my time and learning to do things good and proper so I can say it was all done by me and me alone. I don't worry about the fumes getting to the controller, because I have waterproof project boxes that I am going to be using, so any stray fumes that make it out of the hood, will have no effect on it.
Anyways, that is my outline.. Learning Arduino programming has been the primary focus of my studying the past few months. By spring's end, I will have (at the very very least) stage 1 and probably 2 done. I was thinking of documenting it in depth on here, but I figure most probably don't care, and like the KISS methodology better. If that be the case, then this can die out here.
But, I will take at least a few videos and add links to them for anyone who does want to see them.
reference-
1)Samsung 18650 datasheet
http://www.meircell.co.il/files/Samsung%20ICR18650-22E.pdf
(Allegedly!, refers to link above... they test charging these these at 12v over 2a for 12 hours -no fire! nothin'! , in fact, its very interesting reading what torture they put these batteries through...)
2) segway lithium battery datasheet
http://www.segway.com/media/1595/li-ion_important_information.pdf
3)"How to identify 18650 cells"
https://xaeus.wordpress.com/2016/09/08/how-to-identify-18650-cell-capacity/
WAY too long; didnt read?
Want to watch? (if not, why click on the thread?!? :twisted: )
4) quick youtube video going over the typed out mess of words above
https://youtu.be/hBOlqrsdyIU
*okay, I guess I didn't cover as much as I was expecting to... but, honestly... how often do I not make stuff too long? What did you expect in this thread then?
First, I should probably say this-
----******-----
This post, and anything I say in any of my videos is provided "as is" given, without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied. Just because this is how it works for me, and I havent blown up or burned my house down yet, does not mean that you wont accidentally short something and end up killing your goldfish in a fire.... I, personally, nor is the forum responsible for your actions. Please do study before jumping in... electronics should be treated with as much respect as the chemicals in refining. If I am WAY off base, and you have CITED FACTS, please share! I LOVE to learn!
----******-----
The theory
----******-----
Lithium batteries are everywhere nowadays. They have slowly but surely taken over the rechargeable market, killing NiCad dead. There is an endless supply of them in old laptop batteries amongst many many other things. Like phones, tablets...well, anything that you plug in and charge, then take off the mains voltage and it still magically runs... (Please do add any sources that you have found!).
Generally, they are 3.6V-3.7V nominally(except for LiFe, which is 3.2V nominal), Lithium ion and/or LiPo (those 2 are synonymous, if you believe Dave from EEVBlog) get charged up to 4.2V (this number is quite important)
What is more important, is their chemistry. For the most part, they are simply aluminum (aluminium) and copper electrodes with a graphite electrolyte, with very few lithium ions acting as the charge carrier. (Some lithium batteries actually DO have sheets of lithium as the electrode, as far as I know, NO 18650 cells or LiPo cells do
[this was learned on the interweb, to be taken with 1 grain of salt]
LiPo packs
LiPo packs (see attached) are generally found in the compact pocket size tech that we carry with us daily. Our phones tend to have a ruggedized pack, while tablet's are simply packed in their aluminized casing and sealed tight. This makes LiPo packs great for energy density vs. volume, but also leaves them quite vulnerable to puncture when being used in projects. So, obviously, great care must be taken when using LiPo batteries to power other stuff. (puncture it and you are going to have a bad, bad time)
18650 cells
18650 cells (there are other numerations, but these are most abundant), are basically identical to LiPo, except they are housed in a cylindrical shell, which makes them a bit more resilient and also a bit more abundant. These are what I will be focusing my main project on, while I will also be using Lithium Polymer packs for lighting.
HOW they are charged, is pretty critical (allegedly! **1)
I like to use my lab bench power supply to charge them, it has CC/CV as well a over current and over voltage protection, and it allows me to view what the current is dropping down to during the charge.
If they drop below during storage or active discharge 2.5V, they should be charged with a LOW constant current, until they reach around 2.5-2.7V, then, they should be bumped up to 4.2V and charged with constant voltage, (I say allegedly, because the datasheet citation at the bottom of this post, shows some incredible info for what 18650's can withstand) Once the current starts falling to below 10-20 milliamp, I usually take the power off them.
There are several kinds of protection circuit boards for lithium batteries, in fact, most LiPo batteries have them tied in before their power and ground leads. Some 18650's also have a protection circuit built on top the + terminal (which makes them hard to fit into "18650" slots). Should you have batteries that don't have a protection circuit, they are readily available online on eBay for pennies on the dollar, and they make life quite easy, by simply plugging in a usb
("what!?! A USB is 5v" you say?, well, thats where the protection board comes in, which has a buck converter chip on board, to knock down the power to a constant voltage and varied current)
A couple charging boards I have
The charging boards are the small discreet pcb's bottom middle, the left side is a couple boost converters (for taking the 4.2v up to 35, or 120v in the case of the huge black one), the top middle is a boost/buck converter (for dropping power down to a stable voltage, say from 12.x volts from 3, 18650 in series, down to 5v for an Arduino microcontroller) and the two items on the right are two charge capacity checkers/tester units.
HOW they are discharged is not really as critical, so long as their voltage doesn't sink too far below 2.7V, if it does, some of the protection circuits used in charging them (with a usb cable) believe the battery has gone bad and wont charge it up. Depending on the application the battery is used in.
They can release a pretty impressive amount of energy at once, some can drop 4 amps or more for an extended time (until they run out of juice anyways)
POWER BANKS
Power Banks are probably the best way to use 18650 cells, they come in all shapes and sizes, but you can get "DIY" banks from China, for literally a dollar. They come with their own protection circuit in them, and allow you to power anything you want. Literally. The blue and pink one are just standard ones, blue has 2 cells in parallel (adds the amp hours, compared to "in series" which adds the voltage), the pink has 5 all in parallel.
The thin black one is LiPo driven, with a 2.1 and 1 amp output, nothing special..but... The BIG black one is pretty nifty, it is a "laptop charger" and has selectable voltage from 3.6, 5, 9, 12, 15, 19, and 21 and can output 75W at once! beastly... beastly enough to run a power wheel :twisted:
-----------
The Projects
-----------
Firstly, is one that deals zero with refining.
I was given the idea by Jimdoc to use lithium on my sons powerwheels.. Done! Well, not "done" but, I will be soon enough.
I have been getting supplies over the winter (slowly but surely from China), that are going to allow me to run 18650 cells in his dumptruck and use a boost converter to make his truck have some more pep. Along with a pulse width modulation module in series, so I can easily tune it down without having to dig in the battery compartment. I am going to also be running headlights, blinkers, and a stereo in there for him as well. After that, if it goes well (read 'easy'), then his power wheel tractor is next.
After the boys are satisfied with their toys, then it will be time for me to finally making my new fume hood. Since my last one kind of killed itself when moving (it wanted to taste the highway at 65mph), I am going to build a new one. This one will be better, faster, stronger, and most importantly -part of the 21st century-
I want my fume hood to be intuitive, so I am using Arduino to help it, help me.
The first stage of which I will be simply using Arduino to run a relay that runs the fan. A ultrasonic distance sensor will be telling it to kick on or off, depending on if there is anything in the hood on the hotplate, or if there is a bucket in there, or whatever. Part one will also have lighting. I am going to have a PIR (passive infrared sensor) pick up when I am walking up to the hood, and turn on the LED lights. An LDR (light dependant resistor) will determine if it is 1, 2, 3,or 4 rows of LED's that kick on (depending on how much ambient daylight is in the lab)
Having a microcontroller on my hood gives endless possibilities. Stage 2 I will have the hot plate hooked up so it can be controlled from my phone. Stage 2 will have me adding local phone access, via RF communication and then eventually bluetooth. In the end, by projects end (maybe a year or 2 down the line) I will have the hood hooked up in the IoT (internet of things) world via the Wemos D1. When I have it on WiFi, I can then have a camera module on it, sending me pictures via text or email, showing me what the reaction looks like. If it needs some more nitric. I will hit a button on my webserver, which will activate a peristaltic pump and adds a small dose of nitric to the reaction vessel.
There are many many more ideas that I have for making my hood and refining lab a more modern version, but I am only 1 man, and I am taking my time and learning to do things good and proper so I can say it was all done by me and me alone. I don't worry about the fumes getting to the controller, because I have waterproof project boxes that I am going to be using, so any stray fumes that make it out of the hood, will have no effect on it.
Anyways, that is my outline.. Learning Arduino programming has been the primary focus of my studying the past few months. By spring's end, I will have (at the very very least) stage 1 and probably 2 done. I was thinking of documenting it in depth on here, but I figure most probably don't care, and like the KISS methodology better. If that be the case, then this can die out here.
But, I will take at least a few videos and add links to them for anyone who does want to see them.
reference-
1)Samsung 18650 datasheet
http://www.meircell.co.il/files/Samsung%20ICR18650-22E.pdf
(Allegedly!, refers to link above... they test charging these these at 12v over 2a for 12 hours -no fire! nothin'! , in fact, its very interesting reading what torture they put these batteries through...)
2) segway lithium battery datasheet
http://www.segway.com/media/1595/li-ion_important_information.pdf
3)"How to identify 18650 cells"
https://xaeus.wordpress.com/2016/09/08/how-to-identify-18650-cell-capacity/
WAY too long; didnt read?
Want to watch? (if not, why click on the thread?!? :twisted: )
4) quick youtube video going over the typed out mess of words above
https://youtu.be/hBOlqrsdyIU
*okay, I guess I didn't cover as much as I was expecting to... but, honestly... how often do I not make stuff too long? What did you expect in this thread then?