Flaming posted snobbery

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malfeces

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2012
Messages
53
Location
Maine
Hi all, I have been on this forum for about six months now and have a very quick question to ask people here. I am not trying to cause a fight, insult anyone, or create any problems but I do have one burning question to ask the people of the GRF. My question is this, why is there such a negative reaction to people who ask questions of the forum members? Just because it is common knowledge to one person does not mean it is to everyone, nor does it mean the person asking is ignorant or incapable of scanning the forums threads. Not every seemingly simple question is meant to be a shortcut or way out of researching. As a medical professional, one method of researching IS in fact reaching out to colleagues for their oppinions and knowledge. There is so often the comment that if a person would put more energy into searching than asking they would know the answer by now. These forums are not always easy to navigate, the search function does not always help find what you are looking for, and so much of the threads are filled with intellectual snobbery that it takes at least twice as much time to get through a thread just to find the information you are looking for. Why is the line "Refiners helping one another" written under the forums logo if not to promote a sense of goodwill? I understand that there are a lot of new people coming here who do not know as much as the pros however the pros were not born pros, they had to learn somewhere as well. If a post strikes you as being basic, why not just ignore it? Let it be, if you do not have the patience to direct or help someone then let someone else do it. You are not obligated to respond. Why be nasty and negative under the guise of "just making sure they realize how dangerous this stuff is" and "Its for their own good." If a person starting out gets that kind of reaction, they may be more likely to avoid the forum and proceed on their own without learing all the safety precautions and hazards.

I realize that this post may REALLY iritate many of you. I understand that and accept the consequences of my post. This will likely be the last time I visit this forum. I just hope that it reaches some of you who leave the unpleasant posts and reminds you of the old saying, "If you don't have anything nice (or helpful) to say, don't say anything at all."

Thanks for your time.
 
I will try to give you a series of answers:

1: Because people come here and expect to be led by the hand through procedures that have been discussed at great, great length, including such resources as detailed as videos produced by forum members and others. Many times, a newbie does not know how to properly phrase a question...this is ALWAYS the issue with newbs, the search is hard because they do not have the correct terminology.

2: Members here (and I am taking the liberty of speaking for others even though I do not, per se) are FANATICAL about safety, because some of the fumes generated and acids used CAN KILL YOU, BLIND YOU, or PERMANENTLY DESTROY YOUR LUNGS, right now. Or others around you. No kidding. So often enough when folks come on here and ask in text speak "how do U...." the concern is not especially guiding them the right way (which they clearly have made little or no effort to search out, see #1) to refine their .3 grams of gold in exchange for their eyesight, nobody knows if their jagged text-speak is a misstatement of chemical formulae (after all, if they are too lazy to search out well-documented procedures and too lazy to properly learn and lay out chem formulae, then it is a concern that they may be too lazy to don safety gear, to properly vent fumes or a dozen other things)

3: Some of the best teachers I have ever had have been gruff, grizzled veterans that beat me about the head and shoulders as I asked my dumb newb questions. Everyone today is looking to have everything handed to them on a silver platter and there is often a failure to recognize that on this forum, you have perhaps 200 years of collective experience of real, no jive, high-volume commercial refiners who generously share their hard-won knowledge.

4: We get folks on this forum from all over the world who do not express themselves in cogent, clear English. That is not their fault.

5: We very, very often get folks on this forum who say "first I dumped all my junk jewelry into AR" (wrong) then I sprayed down the flask with Windex (wrong) then I boiled the liquid until (wrong) except the thing boiled over and now I have to replace the flooring in my apartment or I will be evicted in 3 days except my cat died when she inhaled the red fumes. How can I recover my gold?" What do you suggest as an answer to someone who has done everything wrong, has failed to look up anything at all, and expects a global answer to their series of multiple and dangerous blunders?

6: These metals will wait for you FOREVER until you study, learn, ask questions from the standpoint of clearly having begun to study the materials (Hoke) that are mentioned in EVERY newbie post. What's the hurry? Over and over and over again, the people on this forum who have transitioned from newbs to capable refiners have studied the background materials for MANY MONTHS. This is a very, very bad area of endeavor for the typical "Hey I looked it up on the internet and now I know how to do it" thing. People say that giving schoolkids ipads is a great way for them to learn. I disagree. The knowledge is so easy to get, there is no value assigned to it. They believe anything they find on the net. There are lots of subtleties and cautions with this stuff, and many folks come on the forum and think they know more than the proven, repeatedly successful procedures that have been developed over hundreds of years by thousands of participants. Nobody is smarter than the chemicals. They do what they do, and even then, very often there are unexpected results due to temperature, purity of certain reagents, quality of glassware, and plenty of other factors.

Hope this supplies some context.
 
malfeces said:
Hi all, I have been on this forum for about six months now and have a very quick question to ask people here. I am not trying to cause a fight, insult anyone, or create any problems but I do have one burning question to ask the people of the GRF. My question is this, why is there such a negative reaction to people who ask questions of the forum members?

Do you have specific examples of this? What I see is people saving others from making life threatening mistakes. If someone posts a question, and the answer has to do with something dangerous that could lead to serious harm or even death, the person asking the questions needs to be told in no uncertain terms how dangerous it is, and directed to learning or reading the proper material before they start attempting to process.

malfeces said:
Just because it is common knowledge to one person does not mean it is to everyone, nor does it mean the person asking is ignorant or incapable of scanning the forums threads. Not every seemingly simple question is meant to be a shortcut or way out of researching. As a medical professional, one method of researching IS in fact reaching out to colleagues for their oppinions and knowledge.

The key word you used was "colleagues", meaning other people who have a base understanding and knowledge. A heart surgeon asks another heart surgeon about heart issues, they are not asking a foot doctor, and a heart surgeon wouldn't tell a foot doctor how to operate on someone's heart. If there were a forum of doctors who were exchanging information, and a layman came along, someone with no background at all in health sciences, and they started demanding heart surgeons to explain to them how to perform an operation on their wife, nobody would help them. I hope you understand my point. Before even playing around with any of these processes, a person should at least have some base knowledge, a basic understanding of chemistry, a basic understanding of how dangerous these processes are. You don't just hand people information like that. I for one don't want to be the cause of anyone's mistakes, or worse help them create a situation where they are doing someone else harm, or worse causing someone's death.

malfeces said:
There is so often the comment that if a person would put more energy into searching than asking they would know the answer by now. These forums are not always easy to navigate, the search function does not always help find what you are looking for, and so much of the threads are filled with intellectual snobbery that it takes at least twice as much time to get through a thread just to find the information you are looking for.

These forums are far easier to search for information than attempting to find books on the subjects. It is far less expensive also. As well, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of years of accumulated information here. If you cannot at least attempt a search, if you cannot do the most simple of things on this forum, how do you expect to ever be able to understand the information you read, let alone apply it to what you are doing? And just because you cannot understand something in a thread, does not mean it's intellectual snobbery. Maybe if you put forth a little effort and learned the language, it wouldn't sound like intellectual snobbery to you. People are told to read Hoke, not just for the information on how to process, but also to understand the language we use on this forum. It's far easier to help someone if they understand the lingo the "intellectual snobbery" as you put it. If not, you have to first explain what the terms mean, then explain what they are seeking help on. If people refuse to help themselves and sign up here "expecting" people to donate their time, effort and energy to help them, they should at the very least, the bare minimum, understand the language so that they understand what is being taught.

malfeces said:
Why is the line "Refiners helping one another" written under the forums logo if not to promote a sense of goodwill?

If you really want an answer, look to your own question. "Refiners helping one another" means REFINERS helping one another. It doesn't mean or say refiners helping everyone that has no idea how to refine, learn to do so, for free, on our time, at your convenience. Can you even begin to understand how offensive your sense of entitlement might be to someone who has spent the time, read the books, learned on their own how to do these things? How about you answer all the people who donate, for free, all the time they do helping people on this forum. And all the time they spend away from refining to help new people why you seem so smug and entitled about them helping new people?

malfeces said:
I understand that there are a lot of new people coming here who do not know as much as the pros however the pros were not born pros, they had to learn somewhere as well. If a post strikes you as being basic, why not just ignore it? Let it be, if you do not have the patience to direct or help someone then let someone else do it. You are not obligated to respond. Why be nasty and negative under the guise of "just making sure they realize how dangerous this stuff is" and "Its for their own good." If a person starting out gets that kind of reaction, they may be more likely to avoid the forum and proceed on their own without learing all the safety precautions and hazards.

If you honestly understand how extremely dangerous this type of work is, how can you tell someone that cares, that honestly wants to help, to keep people safe, not to post in response to things that new people post, that could get them into a really bad situation. On the one hand you ask why people don't help, and then on the other you are suggesting they don't help. What is it you want from people who are knowledgeable? Why would anyone who does understand the dangers, encourage someone to process with acids and chemicals who has no clue how dangerous these things are. Do you even understand what you are suggesting?

malfeces said:
I realize that this post may REALLY iritate many of you. I understand that and accept the consequences of my post. This will likely be the last time I visit this forum. I just hope that it reaches some of you who leave the unpleasant posts and reminds you of the old saying, "If you don't have anything nice (or helpful) to say, don't say anything at all."

Thanks for your time.

I took the time to read some of your posts. Here are some excerpts of things you have said or asked in the past:

malfeces said:
So sodium nitrate and distilled water solution can not be used to remove silver from keyboard mylars. The sodium has to be removed first. Is that correct? I am trying to find a more cost effective way to recover silver from several lbs of mylars at the moment. Sodium nitrate is MUCH more affordable ...

OK, so now that the batch of fingers is completely done, I need to disolve the gold in HCL and clorox then precipitate with SMB. I will have to wait until i can get a hold of some SMB for that. Any suggestions where to get SMB cheaply?

Thanks Joem, great thread!!! So far here is what I have pulled out of my first batch of processing fingers. After reading and performing the aquaintance proceedure described by Lasersteve and your thread and by watching LS's vids I can clearly see that I need a better set up. This was an excellent l...

Great thread!!! I love your set up! having a hard time finding some things though. My set up is very....VERY basic, but is working none the less. Thanks for the great thread!!

Hi all, I wanted to thank the creators of this forum for all the great information. I have been scrapping ewaste here in Maine for about a year now and have been very interested in learning the process of extracting PM's from electronics scrap. After loads of reading....Hoke takes a while, its not a...

Thanks Geo, knowledge IS power. This is just a hobby for me. This will remain small as I simply do not have the time or space to get any bigger and having two kids with special needs I need to keep a day job that has good health bennies. I do recycle everything. All the plastics I get from electroni...

I am speechless. Rereading over and over... This is phenomonal info...
Thanks LS!

Excellent thread Geo!! I have read it many time and watched your videos over and over. I am a major visual learner. I am wondering if you know roughly what temp your bath is at? I have a stainless steel electric skillet I was thinking of trying with sand. It only hits 450 though...

OK, clear example of how new I am, what is SMB? I am stil trying to keep track of all the acronyms but my notebook is already full after only 4 days of reading and taking notes off the forum!! lol

Oh my god.....so many of my questions answered in one post!!! This forum ROCKS!!! Now I just need to find the thread that has a list a description (pics maybe) of the componants that are worth keeping!!! Thanks Lazersteve!!!!

Oh My God......soooo much info..... brain cramping...... its times like this that i remember that I was a C student at best in high school and college chem classes. Speaking of classes, I am way out classed here. I am starting this as a hobby. From what I am reading the easiest method I can see to s...

Hey all, great site!! Lots of great info and from the looks of it great people too. I am very new to gold refining.....very very new... I have been interested in starting this for about a year now and have been stockpiling up what i have access to, basically gold from electronics. From what i gather...

It seems that you not only were able to find the information you need and were looking for, but that many many MANY people helped you along the way. I think you should go back and read your posts, and see how much people have actually bent over backwards to help you. All the visual aids, all the direction, all the compliments you have given people for helping you so so much.

And I would like to make one more point while I am at it. You have learned a lot on this forum, and in your 6 months time being here, I did not see one post where you were offering to help anyone. Not one. Not in any of your posts. How do you have the right to complain about how people help other people when you not only have not posted any help for anyone yourself, but have learned so much since being here and have thanked so many people?

I am just shaking my head right now, because I honestly do not understand how you can feel so indignant or offended. So if I understand your post correctly, you are threatening to leave because you don't like the way people who know and understand how dangerous all this is, point people who do not understand in the right direction. And before you can give back just a tiny bit of what you have taken from this forum in the form of knowledge, learning, understanding, friendship, etc. You are going to leave?

Your post didn't irritate me, it outright offended me. You who in your six months being here, have never even attempted to help anyone or give back anything you have learned. Nothing. Nada. Zip. And you are going to complain?

Well I say, if you really are going to leave like this after so many people have gone out of their way to help you, go kick rocks!

Scott
 
Element and Scott both gave some pretty fair responses to your perceived slights of new members but I will add a few points. I have refined nearly all my working life, I wasn't taught,there were few books and certainly no forum, I didn't even know of the existence of Hoke, what knowledge there was, was a closely guarded secret so I learned the hard way by trial and error and trying to learn from anyone who had some idea of the processes and methods used. I eventually ran my own commercial refinery for a good many years and found this forum years after I closed it down. I enjoy my time here and learn something virtually every time I visit and try where I can to point other members in the right direction whether that be to stop messing around with chemicals before they kill themselves, family, pets or neighbours or give more specific advice if the questioner seems likely to understand what I'm suggesting. Many of the senior members here on the forum have earned there knowledge the same way I did and many have become highly successful refiners in their own rights with a great depth of experience and knowledge which they share with everyone else in exchange for some basic requirements......read the books and study the forum, be polite and don't expect to be spoon fed the whole shebang in a couple of posts.
If you or anyone else can't abide by those simple requirements please feel free to leave the only place worth a cent when it comes to recovering and refining precious metals on the net, we have plenty of success stories to prove our methods work and all of them are still healthy and refining today.
 
Here comes the drama queens. You guys are funny, thanks for the laugh. You know you could have found this if you would have done a search. :roll: This has all been covered before.
 
The main problem is the word "free"
Nowadays people when they hear free, they always want more. And then there is this entitlement thing.

It reads:
Hobbyists and Professionals Helping One Another - providing somebody with step by step instruction is not going to help him. It only confuse him even more without basic understanding. The ones who want to learn will understand. The ones looking for something else will be offended.
 
i was always led to believe a forum was a place to find and share information ....not to be told to look through thousands of previous comments
 
Questions are just as easily typed in the search box before typing elsewhere.
It should at least be attempted first.

Jim
 
true ...but sometimes its better described in laymens terms and not (excuse the pun) blinded by science ...we are not all that clever
 
stevem4323 said:
i was always led to believe a forum was a place to find and share information ....not to be told to look through thousands of previous comments


This is true but are you the one sharing the info. your post count says no. Most of the "snobbery" if you want to call it that is from people that are helping and have typed the same thing over and over and over again. the human question "have you used the search box" is also to remind people to use the search box first.

Eric
 
stevem4323 said:
i was always led to believe a forum was a place to find and share information ....not to be told to look through thousands of previous comments

That is the main point. Find and share. But it is you who need to find what others already shared here. As I have said before people who are here to learn something will do that without problem just by reading. You maybe need some more time but at the end when you will be answering posts about platinum in hdd at least once every month and about AP process once every week then you may get the picture.

But people....
It is a forum - ask if you want, discuss, talk but for whatever it is worth do not be offended if people do not answer what you want to hear, do not demand attention. If you are not happy with answer then go and look for another answers but it looks that some people are never happy with what they get for free.
If answer you got is that you have to learn or search then why do you feel offended? Because person who answered did not searched forum for you?
There are tons of wonder books which will teach you refining in 10 minutes for sale on eBay. Buy few, spend some money then compare of what is here free of charge with what you bought.
 
stevem4323 said:
true ...but sometimes its better described in laymens terms and not (excuse the pun) blinded by science ...we are not all that clever

When explaining these processes, we all need to use common language, if not then it's difficult to explain anything so that people who come after, and use the search function, can also understand what is being explained.

One of the reasons people harp on reading Hoke, is so that all of us will be speaking the same language, and there will be a drastic reduction in miscommunication. We do not describe things in laymens terms here because if we did so, we might intend something, and it be taken a different way, and then someone may harm themselves because they were following directions incorrectly.

In my wildest imagination I cannot even fathom a world where people would complain so much when so many are willing to help them, even when they are repeatedly being pig headed, not listening to good solid experience and advice, still they want to do their own thing. And then when everything goes wrong, they panic and need a fix right away, and post so.

If you don't want to follow suggestions, or advice why are you here asking for it? If you are going to have issues and problems because people on this forum refuse to hold your hand and sing kumbaya, or sing the Coca Cola song while holding candles, then you shouldn't be here. Personally I am more interested in helping people and being helped myself, than worrying about making people feel all warm and fuzzy. We are not therapists here, we are people trying to make a living refining and recovering precious metals, or hobbyists who do this out of sheer joy.

Let me put it a totally different way. If you were taking a college course, and you acted this way, you would get an F, or be kicked out of the class. When you take a college course you are expected to do the course work, expected to read the books, and then tested on it. What we do when we refine and recover precious metals is not a game, it is literally deadly serious and you need to conduct yourself in that manor.

Stop being babies, and man up!

The sense of entitlement of people who are new and have not contributed anything at all except a lotof questions that already have been asked, many times over, and answered, disgusts me. I just posted on a thread where someone was looking for help, I told him what he needed to look up and he did. That makes me want to follow the thread and help more. If I suggest a subject to look up, and the person becomes upset and wants me to hold their hand, giving them step by step instructions, do you honestly think that will incite me to want to help them further?

I get the distinct feeling sometimes that the only way some people learn is to hit them with a stick, repeatedly, until it sinks in that they need to also help themselves rather than put the burden of learning on someone else.

Scott
 
If Hoke book is not written in layman terms then I do not know what you mean by saying "layman terms". Then perhaps this is not the type of hobby suited for everyone.
 
You know what? I think I have hit on a way to resolve this.

Nobody should ever have to learn anything. After all, it's hard. It takes time and effort. It is completely unfair that anyone knows any more than anyone else. It is a completely lopsided state of affairs that should be addressed, discussed, and corrected at the earliest opportunity. The burden should be on the one who knows more, because that knowledge was undoubtedly obtained by nefarious means. In essence, the more experienced person stole that knowledge.

Everything new to the student should be explained in a way that the student never has to learn even a single new word. Any question must be answered in a way where no authority figure ever has to say "look over here, it's all written down, and you can read it here, better than I might be able to explain it. And here is how you find it". That's cheating, that's exactly the same type of thing as how the the more experienced person got their knowledge in the first place, which we already agree is by hook or crook, more likely by crook. And of course, if there are any losses of materials or skin burns or hospital bills, why, the teacher is unquestionably responsible. Just send in your estimate of how much gold you lost doing it your way or your bill for a two-week stay in intensive care and Noxx will apportion the bill among those who tried to help.

The folks who know how to do things should drop what they are doing and upon receiving a question, give their time, and the benefit of their experience, for free, to anyone who asks. Because their experience is worth nothing, right? Their business is worth nothing. It isn't right that they get to use what they have learned over the years to make money or anything like that. It's completely unfair. They don't need to be working at their shop trying to pay their rent and support families and pay their taxes. No, they need to stop feeling superior and take the time to type and retype the answers, always being careful not to omit any steps, not to use any unfamiliar terms (of course, they are going to have to carefully interview anyone asking questions as to exactly what terms the student knows and does not know.) Any such interview should be conducted at the convenience of the student, at a time and place of the student's choosing. The teachers should bear the cost of traveling to the home/workplace of any such student to make sure that proper procedures are being followed, including safety precautions and waste disposal procedures. They must be very careful not to use any terms that are outside the student's experience. Additionally, they should, at their own cost, bring samples of every type of material a beginner might undertake to process, as well as glassware and chemicals sufficient to process the amount of materials they will be bringing to the student's place of operation. Any kind of hotel stay and meals are the responsibility of the teacher in such cases. Should there be permits required to transport reagents, those costs should be borne by the teacher. There is no greater sin than to expect anyone to undertake anything on their own. All knowledge must be handed to whomever asks for it, without any prerequisite effort on the part of the student. Only in this way will we all be equal.

When the student takes this attitude, it means that the teacher's time is worthless. All the time and experience and study the teacher undertook should be handed over to anyone who asks. This despite the perfectly known characteristic of human beings that that which is given to them is very rarely appreciated.

Answer me this: If the knowledge and experience is worthless, why is there any motivation to acquire it?
 
i lurked on this forum for over three months before i joined. i have prospected and reclaimed gold from electronics ever since PC's began to be scrapped and even before that. i did ask questions and still do. i dont feel that i was ever disrespected (and believe me when i say that i was told the same thing then as new members are today) because i feel it is such a privilege to be here. i respect every member here and take everything im told to heart. if i ask a question and get a response that is less than helpful, i still say thank you for your time. if someone comes on this forum and starts asking questions on the first day or even in the first week (to me) it shows a lack of respect. i know that most people come here because they have (metaphorically speaking) painted themselves into a corner and cant get out. the first stroke of luck for these people is that they found this forum. so whats the first thing they do with all the acquired knowledge here? read on the subject that they messed up on? not likely. they ask the same question that has been asked dozens or hundreds of times expecting an answer and getting an attitude when directed to where they can find the process needed to clean up the mess.

i say start a new topic like "Mercenary for hire : we will come to you and your problems will be dealt with (for a fee)"

step by step tutoring offered for those who are un-willing or un-able to read.fees to be determined on a client by client basis.
 
I'm a noob. I have only read in the forum what looked interesting to me. I saw, that folks are safety fanatics, but I thought that was okay. When someone got "flamed",he had asked something which had to rise concerns about his consciousness. Or, someone asked for a "king's way" to become rich. Okay, maybe I would be more polite to them, but as I did understand, many in here are amazing autodidact experts. It is naturally and very healthy, that they are that cautious. People who are educated in using dangerous chemicals can also in that way sometimes learn from them, as you maybe lose the respect of some chems, if working with them daily...not at least myself :lol: some grams...ok Edited stuff happens....some litres and it's a case for hazmat. But every stupid can buy tons of it. I think this forum is a very nice selfregulating place. And I will surely not go, if I got "flamed", rather I would try to find out, what went wrong, do my homework and clear the situation.

When I need information about a complex item, I READ, READ, READ.
When I write to the forum I don't expect an answer, it's for me like the nice pub round the corner,where I can meet many interesting people with very interesting experiences, c) I dont wonder what the forum can give to me,but what I maybe can give to the forum: Then I write some "intelligent", maybe "snobbed" sentences, which I think, should be written here.

I'm new to this place and I love it!
 
Geo said:
i say start a new topic like "Mercenary for hire : we will come to you and your problems will be dealt with (for a fee)"

step by step tutoring offered for those who are un-willing or un-able to read.fees to be determined on a client by client basis.


ROFLMAO
 
After reading this thread one thing came to mind. When my oldest son (23) was 5-6 years old i was out in my shop one day, long before gold refining, and i was working on a t.v. with an old style picture tube which can kill you. Well he seen daddy using the voltage meter to work and of course he wanted to be like dad and do the same. I turned my back to get something and when i turned around he had the probes in his hand and was already in the danger zone for electrocution. Without even realizing it i slapped his hand so hard that the probes flew out of his hand and i dam near knocked him off the counter top. He cried for all of about 3 minutes and i felt like the worse dad of all time for about 18 years now because of it. At the time my concern was not the fact that i had harmed him as much as the fact that i had saved him though like i said i still felt bad about it at the time, but i don't regret having done what i did one bit. Sometimes we need our hand slapped away even though we don't understand why.
 
I have a couple of comments in regards to newbies. I am a newbie on this forum and I don't feel threatened or mistreated at all by the members. What I read in posts towards newbies is not anger or unwillingness to help, it's concern for safety and also that the person asking the question has put in some effort into helping themselves. I can give multiple examples from my posts as well as others post. I have seen multiple posts where it is obvious that the person posting has put in effort but may not have a strong chemistry background and has abbreviated wrong (grams vs grains) or stated it wrong. The subsequent posts from members have been helpful and informative in explaining what is wrong with their nomenclature and why it's dangerous as well as answering the question. I read a post yesterday where I believe there was confusion with nomenclature and Lou (I think) explained why his question was wrong and how it could be dangerous. I found the whole series of post very helpful. I too am in the medical field and have a strong chemistry and organic chemistry background but the worst thing I can do for myself is think my organic chemistry background makes me an expert in PM chemistry, nothing could be further from the truth. I know when I was in residency, if I didn't have a strong backbone, I needed to change jobs because people weren't going to candy coat information given to me just to make me feel good, the ones that cared about the residents were often the harshest critics and were the ones I learned the most from and respected most. I see a bunch of intelligent people on this forum that are fanatical about their work and care enough to put safety first. If I got my feelings hurt by constructive criticism, I would be a miserable person.

The last point about the post that bothers me is- I don't think the fact that you work in the medical field has any significance whatsoever. If it was to impress someone, it doesn't. I read "I work in the medical field" as an attempt to either gain respect (which it doesn't) or to mislead people ( by letting them assume you have a position you don't). If you are going to post a critique about professionalism- Be professional.

Sorry about the rant, it's just that this post made me angry. "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" is about the worst quote in the world. I want to hear what people say, even if I don't like it. If someone tells me something it's usually for a reason. I want to take the information and process why it was stated. Usually it's because someone cares enough to actually tell me the truth and if I have an open mind I will usually learn something or it may even save my life.

I want to thank everyone on this forum for the help, guidance and understanding. Stated another way, I for one, appreciate and respect "Tuff Love"

Keith
 
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