How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

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Goldextraction32
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How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 16th, 2018, 12:55 pm

We have a gold cyanide solution of 28 liters. We removed gold from gold plated connectors. We used 475 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%. This solution contains 100 grams of gold & around 5 grams of iron. Can sodium cyanide and hydrogen peroxide be destructed using copper sulfate & sodium metabisulfite ? Or there could be a better solution ? How much quantity of chemical/chemicals will be used to destroy sodium cyanide and hydrogen peroxide? How to proceed about it?
Please Help !

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by FrugalRefiner » September 16th, 2018, 2:09 pm

Goldextraction, you should never start any process without a complete understanding of all the safety aspects, including how to deal safely with the waste, especially cyanide!

I can't answer your question as I don't personally use cyanide, but I'm sure someone will be along soon who can.

Be safe.

Dave
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Platinum » September 16th, 2018, 3:31 pm

I'm also a member over at 911 Metallurgist. Is this the same discussion from over there about the gold fingers?
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Lino1406 » September 16th, 2018, 10:42 pm

Hypochlorite will destroy cyanide. (Air) mixing and enough time - meaning storage volume. Ideally it would need 2 stages with pH control. Google for it
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 17th, 2018, 6:34 am

Platinum wrote:I'm also a member over at 911 Metallurgist. Is this the same discussion from over there about the gold fingers?
No, it is not. Thanks for your concern.

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Platinum » September 17th, 2018, 9:12 am

Goldextraction32 wrote:
Platinum wrote:I'm also a member over at 911 Metallurgist. Is this the same discussion from over there about the gold fingers?
No, it is not. Thanks for your concern.

Hummmmmm.........
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 17th, 2018, 10:38 am

Lino1406 wrote:Hypochlorite will destroy cyanide. (Air) mixing and enough time - meaning storage volume. Ideally it would need 2 stages with pH control. Google for it
Thanks for your reply. Can you describe it in detail?

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Platinum » September 17th, 2018, 3:28 pm

So your just going to ignore this situation here like you did over there aren't you?
Is that or is that not your post?
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
1. Refining Precious Metal Wastes C[1].M Hoke http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by FrugalRefiner » September 17th, 2018, 7:51 pm

Goldextraction, I've read your post here and the post Platinum shared from another forum.

Your post here
The post Platinum shared

We have a gold cyanide solution of 28 liters.
We have a gold cyanide solution of 30 liters.

We removed gold from gold plated connectors.
We removed gold from gold fingers.

We used 475 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%.
We used 500 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 1.5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%.

This solution contains 100 grams of gold & around 5 grams of iron.
This solution contains 100 grams of gold and around 5 grams of iron and 5 grams of solder.

Can sodium cyanide and hydrogen peroxide be destructed using copper sulfate & sodium metabisulfite ?
We want to use copper sulphate, sodium metabisulfite for cyanide and hydrogen peroxide destruction.

How to proceed about it?
How to proceed about it?

There are just too many similarities. I don't care if you posted the same question somewhere else. I do care if you deny it. Be honest, and our members will try to help you.

Dave
Printer friendly copy of C. M. Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes.
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Platinum » September 17th, 2018, 8:15 pm

He got answers over there, he's just price shopping for a better one to fit what he wants to hear instead of what he needs to hear. If he would do a little research the answer is here on the forum.
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by goldsilverpro » September 17th, 2018, 9:19 pm

Dupont once published a cyanide destruct method using hydrogen peroxide.
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 18th, 2018, 6:31 am

Platinum wrote:So your just going to ignore this situation here like you did over there aren't you?
Is that or is that not your post?
In fact we were two partners in gold recovery business. That is the reason our post started with “we have……” We had some issues and separated . And that solution became my property. And I don’t understand this gold recovery line as much as my partner did. The first question was posted by my partner. And the question on Gold refining forum is posted by me. I made little bit of changes because I thought people would not be interested to answer the same question. But honestly speaking no dishonest intentions were meant. If my post disturbed anyone, I am sorry about that. I was so tensed I even forgot to start this post with I have…… this time because my gold is stuck in the solution.
So, this is the truth. Please help !
Last edited by Goldextraction32 on September 18th, 2018, 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 18th, 2018, 6:43 am

FrugalRefiner wrote:Goldextraction, I've read your post here and the post Platinum shared from another forum.

Your post here
The post Platinum shared

We have a gold cyanide solution of 28 liters.
We have a gold cyanide solution of 30 liters.

We removed gold from gold plated connectors.
We removed gold from gold fingers.

We used 475 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%.
We used 500 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 1.5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%.

This solution contains 100 grams of gold & around 5 grams of iron.
This solution contains 100 grams of gold and around 5 grams of iron and 5 grams of solder.

Can sodium cyanide and hydrogen peroxide be destructed using copper sulfate & sodium metabisulfite ?
We want to use copper sulphate, sodium metabisulfite for cyanide and hydrogen peroxide destruction.

How to proceed about it?
How to proceed about it?

There are just too many similarities. I don't care if you posted the same question somewhere else. I do care if you deny it. Be honest, and our members will try to help you.

Dave
In fact we were two partners in gold recovery business. That is the reason our post started with “we have……” We had some issues and separated . And that solution became my property. And I don’t understand this gold recovery line as much as my partner did. The first question was posted by my partner. And the question on Gold refining forum is posted by me. I made little bit of changes because I thought people would not be interested to answer the same question. But honestly speaking no dishonest intentions were meant. If my post disturbed someone, I am sorry for that. I was so tensed I even forgot to start this post with I have…… this time because my gold is stuck in the solution.
So, this is the truth. Please help !
Last edited by Goldextraction32 on September 18th, 2018, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Lino1406 » September 18th, 2018, 7:15 am


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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 18th, 2018, 8:08 am

Thanks for the link.
Can we destroy cyanide by simply adding H2O2 to the solution ? Is it safe ? What will be the reaction ? How to determine all the cyanide has been destroyed?
Thanks!

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Lino1406 » September 18th, 2018, 8:39 am

H2O2 with cyanide will result in some kind of "fertilizer". Each result has its dangers. I suggest you to study the subject more seriously or get a quotation from a company and not to expect magic recipes.

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Platinum » September 18th, 2018, 9:12 am

Goldextraction32 wrote:
Platinum wrote:So your just going to ignore this situation here like you did over there aren't you?
Is that or is that not your post?
In fact we were two partners in gold recovery business. That is the reason our post started with “we have……” We had some issues and separated . And that solution became my property. And I don’t understand this gold recovery line as much as my partner did. The first question was posted by my partner. And the question on Gold refining forum is posted by me. I made little bit of changes because I thought people would not be interested to answer the same question. But honestly speaking no dishonest intentions were meant. If my post disturbed anyone, I am sorry about that. I was so tensed I even forgot to start this post with I have…… this time because my gold is stuck in the solution.
So, this is the truth. Please help !
Not a problem sir. Just trying to figure things out.
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3. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 2 (Final) here >> http://tinyurl.com/lndylk
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by kurtak » September 18th, 2018, 10:42 am

Goldextraction32 wrote:We have a gold cyanide solution of 28 liters. We removed gold from gold plated connectors. We used 475 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%. This solution contains 100 grams of gold & around 5 grams of iron. Can sodium cyanide and hydrogen peroxide be destructed using copper sulfate & sodium metabisulfite ? Or there could be a better solution ? How much quantity of chemical/chemicals will be used to destroy sodium cyanide and hydrogen peroxide? How to proceed about it?
Please Help !

Per the underlined - is the gold still in solution ?


I ask - because you are asking how to "destroy" the cyanide --- which would be a question of what to do with the solution (cyanide) AFTER you have recovered the gold


If the gold is still in solution - then your question needs to be --- how do I "recover" the gold from my cyanide solution


copper sulfate &/or sodium metabisulfite will not recover the gold from your cyanide solution - nor will it distroy the cyanide AFTER you recover the gold

So - what do you want to do

destroy the cyanide after the gold has already been recovered - OR ------

recover the gold - the cyanide can &/or needs to be destroyed "after" the gold is recovered


WARNING - do not add acid to cyanide --- you WILL die


do NOT have your cyanide in the the same work area that have acids in the same work area - you may (very well) die


keep cyanide & acids in seperate work areas

Kurt

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by kurtak » September 18th, 2018, 10:55 am

Added Note; - if you need to recover the gold - lets talk about that "first" --- then we can talk about destroying the cyanide

Don't do ANYTHING until you/we know exactly what you are doing &/or until you FULLY understand it

we have several members that can/will help you - but we/you "need" details

Kurt

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 18th, 2018, 12:26 pm

kurtak wrote:Added Note; - if you need to recover the gold - lets talk about that "first" --- then we can talk about destroying the cyanide

Don't do ANYTHING until you/we know exactly what you are doing &/or until you FULLY understand it

we have several members that can/will help you - but we/you "need" details

Kurt
Thanks for your reply.
My gold is still in the solution. I want to first recover gold and then destroy cyanide. Please advise how to proceed? Recover gold first and then destroy cyanide or destroy cyanide first and then recover gold?
Thanks!

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by kurtak » September 19th, 2018, 8:21 am

Goldextraction32 wrote: Please advise how to proceed? Recover gold first and then destroy cyanide or destroy cyanide first and then recover gold?
Thanks!

As I said yesterday & underlined in the above quote --- you want to FIRST recover the gold - & then destroy the cyanide (to make it safe for disposal)

To recover the gold you can run it through an electrolytic winning cell

Or you can run it though a carbon column using "activated" carbon

Or you can use zinc or aluminum - the zinc or aluminum should be "foil" cut into strips

This is no where near enough info to get you started :!: you need MUCH more info to get started - do NOTHING yet :!:

In your first post - you posted
We have a gold cyanide solution of 28 liters. We removed gold from gold plated connectors. We used 475 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%.
I may be wrong about this - but - it sounds like you used to much H2O2 (oxidized) in you solution to dissolve your gold (& maybe WAY to much oxidizer)


To much oxidizer in a cyanide solution can cause a problem with recovery of the gold from the solution - which is why a say to do NOTHING yet

Also - though I have worked with cyanide - my experience is limited (in fact very limited - have only done it once)

Off the top of my head - some of the members here that I know & "trust" to help here are Nick - 4metals - GSP - Deano & Lino --- hopefully they will chime in here

once again - until this has been FULLY discussed - & you FULLY understand what to do --- do NOTHING

Kurt

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 19th, 2018, 12:02 pm

kurtak wrote:
Goldextraction32 wrote: Please advise how to proceed? Recover gold first and then destroy cyanide or destroy cyanide first and then recover gold?
Thanks!

As I said yesterday & underlined in the above quote --- you want to FIRST recover the gold - & then destroy the cyanide (to make it safe for disposal)

To recover the gold you can run it through an electrolytic winning cell

Or you can run it though a carbon column using "activated" carbon

Or you can use zinc or aluminum - the zinc or aluminum should be "foil" cut into strips

This is no where near enough info to get you started :!: you need MUCH more info to get started - do NOTHING yet :!:

In your first post - you posted
We have a gold cyanide solution of 28 liters. We removed gold from gold plated connectors. We used 475 grams of commercial grade sodium cyanide and 5 liters of hydrogen peroxide of 36%.
I may be wrong about this - but - it sounds like you used to much H2O2 (oxidized) in you solution to dissolve your gold (& maybe WAY to much oxidizer)


To much oxidizer in a cyanide solution can cause a problem with recovery of the gold from the solution - which is why a say to do NOTHING yet

Also - though I have worked with cyanide - my experience is limited (in fact very limited - have only done it once)

Off the top of my head - some of the members here that I know & "trust" to help here are Nick - 4metals - GSP - Deano & Lino --- hopefully they will chime in here

once again - until this has been FULLY discussed - & you FULLY understand what to do --- do NOTHING

Kurt
Thanks a lot !

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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by 4metals » September 19th, 2018, 12:32 pm

Kurt is correct in assuming you added a lot of peroxide. I would aerate it with an aquarium bubbler outside in the sunshine for few days to drive off the excess peroxide, then follow this procedure and you will have your gold. Do not throw away any sludges or anything you filter out until you are sure you have all the gold you expect. We can walk you through any situations that come up if you have to find lost gold but we can't do that if you don't save everything.

This doesn't address the waste liquid, that is another story. come back with results and we can get you through the waste too.

These are procedures I have written up; you actually are starting at the point where the gold is dissolved in solution.
Recovering Gold from potassium or sodium gold cyanide

Required supplies and equipment

• Zinc dust 325 mesh is commonly available. Make sure the powder is pure zinc with no declumping chemicals added. (cab-o-sil)
• A slab of zinc metal with a hole drilled in the top edge so it can be tied and hung in a bucket of solution.
• Sodium hydroxide, either flake or as 50% caustic liquid
• Sodium or Potassium cyanide
• pH papers or a pH meter
• A strong propeller driven mixer

Process

• If the salts are in powder form they must be dissolved in warm water, if they are in the form of a solution and any salts have dropped out, heat the solution to assure all of the crytstallization has dissolved, if necessary add water.
• Allow the solution to cool to room temperature.
• Check the pH, if it is below 12, raise it with sodium hydroxide, try not to add too much sodium hydroxide, it shouldn’t take a lot to get the solution to pH 12.
• Add 5 grams per liter of solution of either sodium or potassium cyanide. This makes the dropping of the gold easier and more complete.
• While stirring, slowly add powdered zinc dust. If the zinc dust has clumped up due to humidity, sift it through a flour sifter before adding it. Clumped up zinc dust causes you to use too much and is just a waste. A rule of thumb is one gram of zinc dust for every gram of gold expected. When you first add the zinc dust, you will notice the dark gray zinc dust will appear brown in color. That is because the original addition immediately displaces gold which accounts for the color. Add until all of the precipitate brought up from stirring is gray in color.
• Hang a bar of zinc metal in the solution and allow it to settle overnight. The zinc will both drop any minute quantities that may still be in solution and prevent the re-dissolution of any precipitated gold.
• Decant the clear solution and filter the balance to collect the solids.
• Rinse the collected solids several times with hot water. This is to remove the cyanide from the solids. Collect the rinses and put them with the solution collected earlier.
• While a hood is not necessary for the first steps, it doesn’t hurt. The following steps however, MUST BE CARRIED OUT IN A FUME HOOD!
• Place the solids filtered in a beaker or bucket and add water to allow the leaching of the excess zinc with nitric acid. If your water supply is heavily chlorinated, distilled water would be better.
• Add a small amount of nitric acid, it will react quickly and aggressively dissolving any excess zinc. When the reaction dies down, stir the solution and add another small portion of nitric acid. Stir and repeat until there is no longer any reaction when nitric acid is added.
• Filter the solution and save the insoluble gold residue. This gold should be refined in aqua regia.


EPA regulations today make production processes using cyanide difficult. For refiners processing small lots of gold salts as outlined above, the cyanide solution can pose a problem if allowed to mix with your standard waste stream. Fortunately, cyanide breaks down completely with the heat of incineration. The best way to treat the liquid from which the gold was removed by cementation with zinc is to pour it into an absorbant lot of house sweeps just as it is going into incineration. The resultant incinerated solid will bear no traces of the cyanide after incineration temperatures are reached.

Housekeeping procedures for Cyanide use

• Wear gloves whenever handling cyanide salts or solutions. Wash your hands when done handling the material. If you feel a slippery feeling on your skin when you remove the gloves you likely got some cyanide on your skin. It won’t kill you but wash your hands well with soap. A little vinegar will neuralize the slippery feel if soap is not successful.
• Obtain a small quantity of either potassium or sodium cyanide powder. Store it in a plastic bag inside a tight sealing container. Label the container clearly.
• Do not store the cyanide near any acid. Generally the cyanide is used infrequently and is best stored away from the acid processing area.
• Weigh out the required quantity of the cyanide in a clean tared beaker without bringing the container into the acid processing area. Be careful to avoid spilling any powder and if it is spilled sweep it up dry and wipe up with a damp cloth with bleached water and dry the area.
• Clean out the hood of any standing acid when preparing to process cyanide gold salts.
• Maintain an alkaline pH in all solutions involving cyanide to prevent generating cyanide gas.
• Incinerate the waste liquid or any cloths used from cleaning up spills as detailed above.
• Cyanide is still widely used by electroplaters and refiners and it is perfectly safe if handled properly and with respect.
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 19th, 2018, 1:24 pm

4metals wrote:Kurt is correct in assuming you added a lot of peroxide. I would aerate it with an aquarium bubbler outside in the sunshine for few days to drive off the excess peroxide, then follow this procedure and you will have your gold. Do not throw away any sludges or anything you filter out until you are sure you have all the gold you expect. We can walk you through any situations that come up if you have to find lost gold but we can't do that if you don't save everything.

This doesn't address the waste liquid, that is another story. come back with results and we can get you through the waste too.

These are procedures I have written up; you actually are starting at the point where the gold is dissolved in solution.
Recovering Gold from potassium or sodium gold cyanide

Required supplies and equipment



• Zinc dust 325 mesh is commonly available. Make sure the powder is pure zinc with no declumping chemicals added. (cab-o-sil)
• A slab of zinc metal with a hole drilled in the top edge so it can be tied and hung in a bucket of solution.
• Sodium hydroxide, either flake or as 50% caustic liquid
• Sodium or Potassium cyanide
• pH papers or a pH meter
• A strong propeller driven mixer

Process

• If the salts are in powder form they must be dissolved in warm water, if they are in the form of a solution and any salts have dropped out, heat the solution to assure all of the crytstallization has dissolved, if necessary add water.
• Allow the solution to cool to room temperature.
• Check the pH, if it is below 12, raise it with sodium hydroxide, try not to add too much sodium hydroxide, it shouldn’t take a lot to get the solution to pH 12.
• Add 5 grams per liter of solution of either sodium or potassium cyanide. This makes the dropping of the gold easier and more complete.
• While stirring, slowly add powdered zinc dust. If the zinc dust has clumped up due to humidity, sift it through a flour sifter before adding it. Clumped up zinc dust causes you to use too much and is just a waste. A rule of thumb is one gram of zinc dust for every gram of gold expected. When you first add the zinc dust, you will notice the dark gray zinc dust will appear brown in color. That is because the original addition immediately displaces gold which accounts for the color. Add until all of the precipitate brought up from stirring is gray in color.
• Hang a bar of zinc metal in the solution and allow it to settle overnight. The zinc will both drop any minute quantities that may still be in solution and prevent the re-dissolution of any precipitated gold.
• Decant the clear solution and filter the balance to collect the solids.
• Rinse the collected solids several times with hot water. This is to remove the cyanide from the solids. Collect the rinses and put them with the solution collected earlier.
• While a hood is not necessary for the first steps, it doesn’t hurt. The following steps however, MUST BE CARRIED OUT IN A FUME HOOD!
• Place the solids filtered in a beaker or bucket and add water to allow the leaching of the excess zinc with nitric acid. If your water supply is heavily chlorinated, distilled water would be better.
• Add a small amount of nitric acid, it will react quickly and aggressively dissolving any excess zinc. When the reaction dies down, stir the solution and add another small portion of nitric acid. Stir and repeat until there is no longer any reaction when nitric acid is added.
• Filter the solution and save the insoluble gold residue. This gold should be refined in aqua regia.


EPA regulations today make production processes using cyanide difficult. For refiners processing small lots of gold salts as outlined above, the cyanide solution can pose a problem if allowed to mix with your standard waste stream. Fortunately, cyanide breaks down completely with the heat of incineration. The best way to treat the liquid from which the gold was removed by cementation with zinc is to pour it into an absorbant lot of house sweeps just as it is going into incineration. The resultant incinerated solid will bear no traces of the cyanide after incineration temperatures are reached.

Housekeeping procedures for Cyanide use

• Wear gloves whenever handling cyanide salts or solutions. Wash your hands when done handling the material. If you feel a slippery feeling on your skin when you remove the gloves you likely got some cyanide on your skin. It won’t kill you but wash your hands well with soap. A little vinegar will neuralize the slippery feel if soap is not successful.
• Obtain a small quantity of either potassium or sodium cyanide powder. Store it in a plastic bag inside a tight sealing container. Label the container clearly.
• Do not store the cyanide near any acid. Generally the cyanide is used infrequently and is best stored away from the acid processing area.
• Weigh out the required quantity of the cyanide in a clean tared beaker without bringing the container into the acid processing area. Be careful to avoid spilling any powder and if it is spilled sweep it up dry and wipe up with a damp cloth with bleached water and dry the area.
• Clean out the hood of any standing acid when preparing to process cyanide gold salts.
• Maintain an alkaline pH in all solutions involving cyanide to prevent generating cyanide gas.
• Incinerate the waste liquid or any cloths used from cleaning up spills as detailed above.
• Cyanide is still widely used by electroplaters and refiners and it is perfectly safe if handled properly and with respect.
Thanks for this help !
I will get back to you when I am done with what you have suggested.

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FrugalRefiner
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by FrugalRefiner » September 19th, 2018, 3:49 pm

Goldextraction, you are being given a gift most could only hope to receive. Follow 4metals' directions to the letter. Do not substitute anything. Take this step by step as he guides you through the process and this thread can serve anyone who reads it in the future.

Hobbyists and Professionals Helping One Another!

Dave
Printer friendly copy of C. M. Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes.
Screen readable copy of C. M. Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes.

Goldextraction32
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Re: How to destroy sodium cyanide & hydrogen peroxide

Post by Goldextraction32 » September 20th, 2018, 8:53 am

FrugalRefiner wrote:Goldextraction, you are being given a gift most could only hope to receive. Follow 4metals' directions to the letter. Do not substitute anything. Take this step by step as he guides you through the process and this thread can serve anyone who reads it in the future.

Hobbyists and Professionals Helping One Another!

Dave
You are right Dave.
Thanks!

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