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Home built centrifuge - gold concenrates from IC's

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rusty

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Post January 20th, 2013, 3:12 pm

Home built centrifuge - gold concenrates from IC's

Centrifuges used to recover finely divided precious metals from ore circuits have been in existence for years, the one I'm working on will be similar in size to the seven inch Super Bowel shown below the wood pattern I'm working on.

Once the wood pattern is completed my bowel will be cast in aluminum then machined to fine tune the bowel, centrifuges have a great reputation for being able to recover the finest particle of gold from milled or ore. in my case the centrifuge will be used to recover precious metals from incinerated IC's.

The larger pieces of copper and such are screened from the ash with only the fine power left behind being feed into the centrifuge as a slurry, the lighter material gets flung over the top of the bowel while the heavier precious metals become entrapped in the groves located near the upper zone.

Centrifuges are quite, use less water are much more efficient than a shaking table which have more moving parts.
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Last edited by rusty on March 20th, 2013, 5:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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rusty

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Post January 20th, 2013, 5:39 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

Todays progress, the final profile inside and out completed successfully, gave it a coat of linseed oil then some more sanding the pattern for the centrifuge bowel is done ready for casting.

I may have to order a larger crucible to hold the required volume of metal to fill this mold cavity.

The finished aluminum casting will have the required groves machined into it.
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butcher

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Post January 20th, 2013, 8:24 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

That is going to be to pretty to put mud in.
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rusty

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Post January 20th, 2013, 9:01 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

butcher wrote:That is going to be to pretty to put mud in.


Thanks butcher, my small crucible and lack of hobby funds may delay the foundry part of this project.

This evening glued up more wood for another style of centrifuge, this one will be used to polish my waste oil.
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Palladium

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Post January 21st, 2013, 3:08 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

I love watching his ingenuity.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
1. Refining Precious Metal Wastes C.M. Hoke http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
(REV) (Free Download)
2. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 1 here >> http://tinyurl.com/nyutnp
3. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 2 (Final) here >> http://tinyurl.com/y9w5y73
4. Chemistry Handbooks Here (FREE) >> http://tinyurl.com/macoro9
ALL FREE-----ALL THE TIME
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rusty

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Post January 21st, 2013, 3:38 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

The gold centrifuge I've posted a picture above is worth an astounding $8820.00 Canadian dollars, is reputed to recover down to 20 microns. The company that sells the machine above also have another 12 inch model that will pull down to 5 microns which is smaller than a human red blood cell.
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skippy

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Post January 21st, 2013, 4:52 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

For anybody who wasn't aware, a centrifuge when it fails can be as destructive as a bomb. They have tremendous energy when they get up to speed.
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rusty

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Post January 21st, 2013, 5:11 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

skippy wrote:For anybody who wasn't aware, a centrifuge when it fails can be as destructive as a bomb. They have tremendous energy when they get up to speed.


For anyone attempting to build a centrifuge they should have a good grasp on kinetic energy and mass.

I'm actually surprised they they use a poly bowel on the gold concentrator. must use some sort of backing to support the plastic.

Once had a Yamaha 650 cruising 120 mph when i came into rain and oil slicked highway i can say for a fact you could not have laid that bike over. The energy in the wheels acting like huge gyros kept the bike upright.
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rusty

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Post January 21st, 2013, 8:54 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

The waste oil centrifuge pattern is taking shape.
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Jimmy

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Post January 21st, 2013, 9:39 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

I pour aluminum all the time so if you need it poured, let me know.
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rusty

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Post January 21st, 2013, 10:21 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

Jimmy wrote:I pour aluminum all the time so if you need it poured, let me know.


Thanks for the offer Jimmy, this is a job i prefer to do in house. I use Petrobond which gives a superior surface finish, a fine grain aluminum is required, then I use a commercial degassing tablet.

Any castings showing porosity during the machining phase will be discarded.

I do not think it practical to source this job out especially with the quality control I'm exercising with this project.
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Jimmy

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Post January 21st, 2013, 10:48 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

No problem.
I would however recomend Hydroperm plaster over the Petrobond. It is only about $1.00 per pound and will give you a much more superior finish and much less inclusions than Petrobond.
:lol:
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rusty

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 12:31 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Jimmy wrote:No problem.
I would however recomend Hydroperm plaster over the Petrobond. It is only about $1.00 per pound and will give you a much more superior finish and much less inclusions than Petrobond.
:lol:


If you getting inclusions in your castings using Petrobond your doing something drastically wrong.

The majority of my projects are built on impulse but this will only take you so far with out research, having the right data to work with helps. With what I've learned these past weeks I'm confident that I could now build a large 40 inch centrifuge and not have it disintegrate into pieces.

Because my research tells me a drum that size would turn so slow to generate the required G-Force if you put a chalk mark on it you could count the revolutions, well not quit.

Building a centrifuge that successfully concentrates values is akin to refining precious metals, in the latter you have Hokes and the many tutors willing to assist when a problem arises.

It disappoints me to know how many millions of downloads there have been for Hokes book and how few have actually read the book.

I choose not to participate in a forum contest related to building your own equipment, in fact I do not know even if we have a winner.

Perhaps I should consider my centrifuge my entry.

On a side not Petrobond will no longer be available the North American mines have exhausted their supply of Olivine.
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Post January 22nd, 2013, 1:31 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Ive owned a foundry and have operated it for 30 years. Dont do too much commercial work these days thou.
Cant remember ever using ovaline sand for non ferous work.
Usually I would use alumina sands if I was worried about expansion. And you only need to worry about expansion on thin sections that are created in some types of cores. A thick casting such as that part you are making has no problem with heat buildup. Any potential over heat condition will cause a lot of problems with the oil binder before the thermal expansion of the sand comes into play.
Give the hydroperm a try. No erosion problems as you will have with the petrobond and no thermal expansion problems at all up to 2000F. You will be well below that.
Takes detail too quite well.
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rusty

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 2:30 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Jimmy wrote:Ive owned a foundry and have operated it for 30 years. Dont do too much commercial work these days thou.
Cant remember ever using ovaline sand for non ferous work.
Usually I would use alumina sands if I was worried about expansion. And you only need to worry about expansion on thin sections that are created in some types of cores. A thick casting such as that part you are making has no problem with heat buildup. Any potential over heat condition will cause a lot of problems with the oil binder before the thermal expansion of the sand comes into play.
Give the hydroperm a try. No erosion problems as you will have with the petrobond and no thermal expansion problems at all up to 2000F. You will be well below that.
Takes detail too quite well.


I apologize - I had no right to jump on you.

If your offer had been closer to home it would have been a pleasure working with you, I could perhaps have learned something new.

I'm capable of doing this small job, as you say the casting is thick enough so there should not be any thermo tearing on cooling.
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Post January 22nd, 2013, 2:38 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Harold I need some advice, I've never worked with plastic before.

I purchased this a few years back, forgot what type of plastic it is, I can tell you when you try to pull the stringers away they're elastic and it machines reasonably well.

On the small end facing the tail stock, when the bowel is completed this is the end that will mount onto the motor shaft. Something in my head is telling me that I should bore this hole larger then install an insert with the hole reamed out to fit the motor shaft. What is your take on this idea.

The inset would be held in place with roll pins, or flanged on the bottom then secured with screws , drill a slightly larger hole to access the set screw located on the insert which also would have a key way broached in, the maximum RPM is 1500 or slower.

Ok, now I'm thinking that the flange on that metal insert should come from the inside of the bowel with a washer on the bottom side with countersunk bolts topside going straight through
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Harold_V

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 4:23 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

rusty wrote:Harold I need some advice, I've never worked with plastic before.

I purchased this a few years back, forgot what type of plastic it is, I can tell you when you try to pull the stringers away they're elastic and it machines reasonably well.

Looks like it could be polyethylene. Definitely not Delrin, Teflon or Nylon. Most likely has a bit of a waxy smell when being machined, eh?

On the small end facing the tail stock, when the bowel is completed this is the end that will mount onto the motor shaft. Something in my head is telling me that I should bore this hole larger then install an insert with the hole reamed out to fit the motor shaft. What is your take on this idea.

If you have means to install the insert so it is reliable, I agree.

The inset would be held in place with roll pins, or flanged on the bottom then secured with screws , drill a slightly larger hole to access the set screw located on the insert which also would have a key way broached in, the maximum RPM is 1500 or slower.

Ok, now I'm thinking that the flange on that metal insert should come from the inside of the bowel with a washer on the bottom side with countersunk bolts topside going straight through

I was thinking something on the order of flanges as well. I'd consider a large nut, with enough inside diameter to permit the extension portion to be large enough to accept the required bore and keyway for the motor shaft. Sort of like a flange assembly for mounting grinding wheels.

Keeping things concentric is going to be a bit of an issue unless you hold sizes quite close. You may have to balance the entire assembly when it's completed. Castings are notorious for not being homogenous, so it could have a heavy side, even if it's machined on all surfaces, and is concentric.

I most likely would have recommended the bowl be made from 7075-T6 instead of a casting. Much more uniform, and of greater tensile strength. The strength may not be an issue, depending on the velocity of the bowl in operation.

Like to hear how it turns out. I rarely get on the board these days, so please send me an email when you post, directing me to your comments.

Jimmy,
Wish you were near my location. I'm keen on learning more about foundry work. I intend to pour ductile iron in the future. While I never had enough interest to make the foundry my way of making a living, it has held my attention since I was a young lad---used to hang out at a couple foundries. I enjoyed all aspects, from watching cores being made to ramming and pouring molds.

Harold
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rusty

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 4:57 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Harold_V wrote:
rusty wrote:Harold I need some advice, I've never worked with plastic before.

I purchased this a few years back, forgot what type of plastic it is, I can tell you when you try to pull the stringers away they're elastic and it machines reasonably well.

Looks like it could be polyethylene. Definitely not Delrin, Teflon or Nylon. Most likely has a bit of a waxy smell when being machined, eh?

On the small end facing the tail stock, when the bowel is completed this is the end that will mount onto the motor shaft. Something in my head is telling me that I should bore this hole larger then install an insert with the hole reamed out to fit the motor shaft. What is your take on this idea.

If you have means to install the insert so it is reliable, I agree.

The inset would be held in place with roll pins, or flanged on the bottom then secured with screws , drill a slightly larger hole to access the set screw located on the insert which also would have a key way broached in, the maximum RPM is 1500 or slower.

Ok, now I'm thinking that the flange on that metal insert should come from the inside of the bowel with a washer on the bottom side with countersunk bolts topside going straight through

I was thinking something on the order of flanges as well. I'd consider a large nut, with enough inside diameter to permit the extension portion to be large enough to accept the required bore and keyway for the motor shaft. Sort of like a flange assembly for mounting grinding wheels.

Keeping things concentric is going to be a bit of an issue unless you hold sizes quite close. You may have to balance the entire assembly when it's completed. Castings are notorious for not being homogenous, so it could have a heavy side, even if it's machined on all surfaces, and is concentric.

I most likely would have recommended the bowl be made from 7075-T6 instead of a casting. Much more uniform, and of greater tensile strength. The strength may not be an issue, depending on the velocity of the bowl in operation.

Like to hear how it turns out. I rarely get on the board these days, so please send me an email when you post, directing me to your comments.

Jimmy,
Wish you were near my location. I'm keen on learning more about foundry work. I intend to pour ductile iron in the future. While I never had enough interest to make the foundry my way of making a living, it has held my attention since I was a young lad---used to hang out at a couple foundries. I enjoyed all aspects, from watching cores being made to ramming and pouring molds.

Harold


Yes it has a waxy smell, you could make miles of fishing line, the darn stuff comes off in one long continuous string and tough to break.

For simplicity I'll go with the flanged insert inside with washer machined to fit below then run some bolts through.

So with the 7075-T6 aluminum this would be billet.

My neighbor has a few machine shops scattered around the globe, next visit I'll ask if he has a dynamic balancing machine.

On the larger centrifuges they roll the iron then weld everything together, but then the larger drum do not turn near as fast as this 7 inches.

Thanks for dropping by Harold.
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Post January 22nd, 2013, 5:20 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

rusty wrote:So with the 7075-T6 aluminum this would be billet.

That's what they like to call it, but it's just bar stock. The term billet is well overused these days. Sort of a "catch phrase". It's a legal term--most everything comes from a billet--but is further processed to forms. Round bar, rectangular bar, square bar, etc.. You get the idea.

My neighbor has a few machine shops scattered around the globe, next visit I'll ask if he has a dynamic balancing machine.

Certainly worth asking. You might even find it runs fine without balancing---you never know. Velocity is king, here. The faster it runs, the worse it will be.

Looks like an interesting project.

Thanks for dropping by Harold.


Thanks for the invite. Nice to see something different.

Harold
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rusty

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 5:44 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

Some of the larger machine shops and ship yards must have inventory worth more than Fort Knox, I priced out 1 ft x 8" diameter 7075-T6 aluminum - $200.00 a ft. before tax.

I think Harold is right the plastic i have is Polyethylene same stuff they're manufacturing the new concentrator bowels from. I hope that it works satisfactory as I rather do like working with it, you can take some really big bites bringing your work into shape fast.

Like most of you we're experiencing a major cold spell, the shop floor is freezing cold and its beginning to bother my legs. Had i been prepared would have made a spring board to stand on, in the mean time taking more breaks than usual.

Also did an alignment tuneup on the lathe, tail stock it was out a couple of thou. Now that that job s out of the way I had a chance to hog out the center of the bowel, later machine in the grooves.

Working with an opaque plastic sucks so at this point the pictures are not all that good.

Edit to make correction, re: type of plastic
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Harold_V

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 10:06 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

Not polystyrene, Gill. That's a totally different animal (resembles Lucite, but with a different smell). Polyethylene. Polypropylene is tougher, but not nearly as user friendly. The plates in my filter press were made of polypropylene, as it has excellent chemical resistance, too.

Yep--it (polyethylene) is very nice to machine. Doesn't dull tools, and will tolerate incredible feeds and speeds.

I made a point of not dulling tools. Some plastics are horrible in that regard. Some are glass/resin based, and extremely abrasive. Also, some of the plastics have glass as a part of their makeup (not a resin product). All of them are horribly destructive of tooling. Best success is achieved with carbide---HSS performs poorly. Most likely more than you need to know, eh? :lol:

Harold
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Jimmy

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 10:11 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

Harold_V wrote:
rusty wrote:Harold I need some advice, I've never worked with plastic before.

I purchased this a few years back, forgot what type of plastic it is, I can tell you when you try to pull the stringers away they're elastic and it machines reasonably well.

Looks like it could be polyethylene. Definitely not Delrin, Teflon or Nylon. Most likely has a bit of a waxy smell when being machined, eh?

On the small end facing the tail stock, when the bowel is completed this is the end that will mount onto the motor shaft. Something in my head is telling me that I should bore this hole larger then install an insert with the hole reamed out to fit the motor shaft. What is your take on this idea.

If you have means to install the insert so it is reliable, I agree.

The inset would be held in place with roll pins, or flanged on the bottom then secured with screws , drill a slightly larger hole to access the set screw located on the insert which also would have a key way broached in, the maximum RPM is 1500 or slower.

Ok, now I'm thinking that the flange on that metal insert should come from the inside of the bowel with a washer on the bottom side with countersunk bolts topside going straight through

I was thinking something on the order of flanges as well. I'd consider a large nut, with enough inside diameter to permit the extension portion to be large enough to accept the required bore and keyway for the motor shaft. Sort of like a flange assembly for mounting grinding wheels.

Keeping things concentric is going to be a bit of an issue unless you hold sizes quite close. You may have to balance the entire assembly when it's completed. Castings are notorious for not being homogenous, so it could have a heavy side, even if it's machined on all surfaces, and is concentric.

I most likely would have recommended the bowl be made from 7075-T6 instead of a casting. Much more uniform, and of greater tensile strength. The strength may not be an issue, depending on the velocity of the bowl in operation.

Like to hear how it turns out. I rarely get on the board these days, so please send me an email when you post, directing me to your comments.

Jimmy,
Wish you were near my location. I'm keen on learning more about foundry work. I intend to pour ductile iron in the future. While I never had enough interest to make the foundry my way of making a living, it has held my attention since I was a young lad---used to hang out at a couple foundries. I enjoyed all aspects, from watching cores being made to ramming and pouring molds.

Harold



Well, if you guys need some pointers, dont hesitate to ask.
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rusty

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 12:23 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Harold_V wrote:Not polystyrene, Gill. That's a totally different animal (resembles Lucite, but with a different smell). Polyethylene. Polypropylene is tougher, but not nearly as user friendly. The plates in my filter press were made of polypropylene, as it has excellent chemical resistance, too.

Yep--it (polyethylene) is very nice to machine. Doesn't dull tools, and will tolerate incredible feeds and speeds.

I made a point of not dulling tools. Some plastics are horrible in that regard. Some are glass/resin based, and extremely abrasive. Also, some of the plastics have glass as a part of their makeup (not a resin product). All of them are horribly destructive of tooling. Best success is achieved with carbide---HSS performs poorly. Most likely more than you need to know, eh? :lol:

Harold


Fortunately my lathe has just enough power to use carbide tooling, no i was not aware that HSS would perform poorly, is this true for all types of plastics.

Thought i worked myself into a corner, after cutting the groves in I could no longer chuck the bowel from that end and still had to bore out the hole on the bottom for the insert and my longest boring bar was to short for the reach. With my BXA quick change post have an insert with a morris taper to accept the drill chuck,enabling the lathe to power feed for small drilling applications.

With the bowel now chucked from the base and the added reach of the drill chuck the hole is now complete to accept the insert which I'm now working on between coffee breaks.

That nice pile to plastic turnings makes for a nice mat to stand on, might just leave it there. :twisted:

Harold the Casting mag came this afternoon, did you get yours.
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rusty

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 12:45 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

Jimmy if this plastic bowels works out the rest will also be machined from the same material.
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butcher

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 2:27 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

I am enjoying watching this project, and the progress. Thanks.
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Jimmy

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 2:36 am

Re: Home built centrifuge

rusty wrote:Jimmy if this plastic bowels works out the rest will also be machined from the same material.

I enjoyed working my home foundry and made some decent money selling SCUBA and fishing weight molds the Case tractor company mascot Old Abe of which I have several molds that I've made up.

My largest Eagle was copied from a Case steam tractor, the fellow has it under restoration and he loaned me the firebox door long enough to copy the eagle, then I have the fence final along with bookends for the shop library. it was a good way to maximize profits from scrap aluminum.

Eventually I purchased a pneumatic tamper, and its this that finally did me in. The vibration aggravated the nerves in my neck so bad my right thumb felt is was on fire, went to the doctor to find out i have a neck injury dating back to infancy. An injury I was unaware of.

Least running the lathe I can sit and basically watch the work rather than have to manhandle hot crucibles of metals that I could unexpectedly drop with out notice. Neck injury's are not very much fun, then in my lower back have L1 and L2 shot.

So if I get cranky sometimes you have to bear with, in my youth took all this in stride but getting older takes it toll on a body.

Fell free to chime in as you can tell I'm not a machinist, just have enough ability to make things round and drill a few holes.


I think you are doing great so far.

And the neck pains are another reason to use Hydroperm. No ramming. :D
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rusty

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 12:15 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

My shop burnt to the ground last night, everything is a total loss.
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butcher

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 12:28 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

I am so sorry to hear that, I know how hard it would be to loose a shop.
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RikkiRicardo

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 12:37 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

Wow that is a great loss to everyone
do you have insurance?
i was keeping a eye on this post and you were doing a great job where a lot of people could benefit from this
were can we help you you have the plans and the idea we would like to keep this project going.
again sorry for your loss.


Rikki
we are interested in Pm metal refining we would like to start our own refinery here in Romania we would like to buy the equipment needed for this project.
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Jimmy

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Post January 23rd, 2013, 12:51 pm

Re: Home built centrifuge

What?? How did that happen?
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