Ribbon Cable

Well... everything about silver !
Post Reply
rickjackieb

Ribbon Cable

Post by rickjackieb » July 11th, 2007, 2:25 am

:D Hi folks, Great Site!!!! So much knowledge and experience. Regarding PM content, is the wire in ribbon cables silver? I have found both silver and gold contacts on the end of the ribbon. Please advise. Thanks, Rick

aflacglobal
Active Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 12:37 am
Location: ozone

Welcome

Post by aflacglobal » July 11th, 2007, 3:12 am

Welcome to the forum Rick. I am not the one for that answer, but rest assured some will catch it for you. You just getting into this. Tell us a little about your adventures, so to speak. See you on the flip side.

Ralph
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
1. Refining Precious Metal Wastes C[1].M Hoke http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
(REV) (Free Download)
2. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 1 here >> http://tinyurl.com/nyutnp
3. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 2 (Final) here >> http://tinyurl.com/y9w5y73
4. Chemistry Handbooks Here (FREE) >> http://tinyurl.com/n27pqu
ALL FREE-----ALL THE TIME

rickjackieb

Re: Ribbon Cable

Post by rickjackieb » July 15th, 2007, 2:35 am

rickjackieb wrote::D Hi folks, Great Site!!!! So much knowledge and experience. Regarding PM content, is the wire in ribbon cables silver? I have found both silver and gold contacts on the end of the ribbon. Please advise. Thanks, Rick
Can anyone provide some insight on this?

Regards,

Rick

User avatar
Harold_V
Active Member
Posts: 8370
Joined: February 25th, 2007, 11:58 pm
Country of Origin: USA

Re: Ribbon Cable

Post by Harold_V » July 15th, 2007, 4:39 am

rickjackieb wrote:
rickjackieb wrote::D Hi folks, Great Site!!!! So much knowledge and experience. Regarding PM content, is the wire in ribbon cables silver? I have found both silver and gold contacts on the end of the ribbon. Please advise. Thanks, Rick
Can anyone provide some insight on this?

Regards,

Rick
My years of refining revolved around high grade wastes, so I don't now a great deal about electronic scrap, but it would be simple to test the ribbon in question. If the wire within is copper colored, pretty good bet that's what it is. If, by chance, you find it to be white in color, dissolve a tiny bit of it in a few drops of nitric acid and a touch of water----tap water will do. If you get a slight white precipitate in the solution as the wire dissolves, it's likely silver---and a touch of table salt will prove it is, or isn't. If it's silver, the salt will precipitate the silver nitrate as silver chloride, which will resemble cottage cheese to a degree.

If, on the other hand, your solution is blue, it's likely the wire is nothing more than copper, perhaps tinned.

Harold

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Silver traces in mylar ribbons and membranes

Post by lazersteve » July 15th, 2007, 10:19 am

Rickjackieb,

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry for the delays in answering this one. Harold's suggested test will provide you a definitive answer to your question.

I can assure you that silver paste is definitely used to print some of these ribbions. Another place you'll find silver printed circuits is inside keypad membranes. From microwave oven keypads to laptop keyboards, this silver printing process is a very common manufacturing process for membrane keypad circuits.

Here is proof of what Harold and myself are talking about:

This is an overview of a disassembled older laptop keyboard:

Image


Here is a close up of the mylar sheets that contain the silver traces:
Image


You will need to peel off the thin sticky backing on one side of the ribbon:

A shot of the nitric working on the silver traces:

Image


And finally table salt has been added to produce the white silver chloride 'cottage cheese':

Image


The fact that the silver is sandwiched between the mylar sheets makes recovering it an involved process. I would suggest controlled melting as an initial step to remove the protective mylar coatings. Mylar melts at 254C and silver melts at 961C.

I hope this helps.

Steve
Last edited by lazersteve on March 9th, 2008, 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Desktop Keyboards Initial Harvest

Post by lazersteve » July 15th, 2007, 11:46 am

All,

I spent one hour harvesting desktop keyboards for the mylar sheets. I processed 20 assorted keyboards in the hour. Of the 20 desktop keyboards 18 contained silver printed mylars. The total weight of the mylars was 9.8 oz. Here's a photo of the mylars:

Image

I'll post more accurate silver yields when time permits.


Steve
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

The silent silver topic...

Post by lazersteve » July 15th, 2007, 9:02 pm

Is anyone following this thread? :?

It's so quite you could hear a pin drop.

Anyway, I've slowly melted one mylar from a keyboard. The mylar and silver traces weighed 5 grams after gently melting with a heat gun set to medium. The mylar melted with no fumes and just crumpled into a semitransparent ball in the melting dish.

I then went at it with my Oxy/Act torch on the lowest possible gas flow and with the tip 6-8 inches from the mylar silver mass in the melting dish. After 30 minutes of tedious melting and periodic pouring off of black resins the silver began to group into a nice mash under the black goo. I tried to keep the mylar from igniting and producing a sooty smoke.

When no more melted resin would pour off, I added two teaspoons of borax and stepped up the heat; not full on but hotter and closer. Within five minutes the silver pooled into a BB while the borax flamed up as the last of the mylar residue burnt away in it.

Surprisingly the borax came out clear yellow when the last of the silver BB's joined together.

Here's a photo of the silver from the above process:

Image

I can't weigh the BB on my scales due to it's size , but I estimate it is no more than a quarter of a gram. If it is a quarter gram then a single pair of keyboard mylars should produce approximately 1/2 gram of silver per keyboard.

More to come later.

Steve
Last edited by lazersteve on November 4th, 2007, 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

PhillipJ
Active Member
Posts: 74
Joined: April 18th, 2007, 7:03 pm
Location: WI

Post by PhillipJ » July 15th, 2007, 9:28 pm

Well, if that don't beat all Steve! That't pretty cool. But you must of thought about the cost of supplies.
Phillip J.

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Proof of concept with keyboards

Post by lazersteve » July 15th, 2007, 9:39 pm

Phillip,

Absolutely. This was merely a test of the waters, a proof of concept if you will.

I have access to hundreds of free keyboards. If I can develop a large scale method to process pounds of these mylars in a single batch they may prove to be profitable. If nothing else they can provide very good silver for inquartations. :wink:

Steve
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

aflacglobal
Active Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 12:37 am
Location: ozone

Post by aflacglobal » July 15th, 2007, 10:39 pm

Is anyone following this thread?

It's so quite you could hear a pin drop.


I always follow your post steve. With great anticipation i might add.
But like a good cat i just lurke in the shadows. :shock:

I've been off following ( or trying to ) your latest video series.
I'm trying to learn the chemistry behind it. Dummy version of course.
Always looking for improvement, so to say.

You keep making them video's your going to need an agent one day. lol

I now know about keyboards thanks to you. :wink:

Ralph
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
1. Refining Precious Metal Wastes C[1].M Hoke http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
(REV) (Free Download)
2. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 1 here >> http://tinyurl.com/nyutnp
3. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 2 (Final) here >> http://tinyurl.com/y9w5y73
4. Chemistry Handbooks Here (FREE) >> http://tinyurl.com/n27pqu
ALL FREE-----ALL THE TIME

Charlena
Active Member
Posts: 158
Joined: June 2nd, 2007, 2:25 pm
Location: Reseda Ca

Boy the way you think sometimes kitty

Post by Charlena » August 25th, 2007, 4:59 am

aflacglobal wrote: You keep making them video's your going to need an agent one day. lol

I now know about keyboards thanks to you. :wink:

Ralph
Don't know wether to love ya or to watch out for ya! LOL
"The older ~The Golder"
"Now...Can you call this fine gold powder obsolete?"

aflacglobal
Active Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 12:37 am
Location: ozone

Post by aflacglobal » August 25th, 2007, 6:47 pm

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
1. Refining Precious Metal Wastes C[1].M Hoke http://tinyurl.com/mfnyhs
(REV) (Free Download)
2. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 1 here >> http://tinyurl.com/nyutnp
3. Get the (FREE) Gold Refining Forum Handbook VOL 2 (Final) here >> http://tinyurl.com/y9w5y73
4. Chemistry Handbooks Here (FREE) >> http://tinyurl.com/n27pqu
ALL FREE-----ALL THE TIME

User avatar
Buzz
Active Member
Posts: 303
Joined: September 26th, 2007, 1:42 pm
Country of Origin: England
Location: Wakefield, England

Post by Buzz » November 4th, 2007, 6:37 am

Steve,

I just took apart about a dozen keyboards of different makes/model.

When I looked at the pair of mylar sheets that came of them all, the silver coloured traces are sat on the surface. I can get a sharp craft knife and scrape bits of them off.

Would this mean i could just pass the sheets through Nitric to dissolve the traces or would the Mylar interfere with this?

I'd have a go and see but i just don't like messing with Nitric!

Kind Regards
Buzz
It was there a minute ago, Honest!

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Nitric Acid and keyboard mylars

Post by lazersteve » November 4th, 2007, 11:04 am

Buzz,

You are right on the money. Passing the mylars thru a shallow pan of dilute nitric works. I tested a small piece a few months back. Like you said, I don't like working with nitric either, maybe there is an alternative solvent which will accomplish the same task.

I haven't done any more work on the subject as my silver supply is at a level that meets my inquartation needs for now.

Steve
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

User avatar
Never_Evil
Active Member
Posts: 130
Joined: August 28th, 2007, 11:59 pm
Location: NE wisconsin

Post by Never_Evil » November 4th, 2007, 11:54 am

Steve

Would boiling the mylars in just water separate the layers? If that were to work you could have access to the traces from above and maybe use a foam brush to spread the nitric over the traces, process and dispose of waste. Of course these are just thoughts so Im not sure if they would work.

dennis

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Separating Mylars

Post by lazersteve » November 4th, 2007, 12:14 pm

Dennis,

The two mylars peel apart easily (they are only connected at a few points). The silver is printed on the mylar surface and is easily removed with dilute nitric. A scrub brush (toothbrush) would speed the process, but expose you to the acid more.

Steve
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

fixinator
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: April 10th, 2007, 4:38 pm
Location: Southwest Michigan

mylars and silver

Post by fixinator » November 24th, 2007, 8:18 pm

I've been following this thread, Steve. I've been lurking here for a long time now. I've stockpiled quite a few mylars. I am certainly interested in learning a cost effective way of processing these.

Fix

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Mylars Part 2

Post by lazersteve » November 24th, 2007, 11:10 pm

Welcome back,

I'm toying with using a dilute nitric bath dip tank for the mylars. I've tested it with a large clean pickle jar as the tank and my initial tests shows it works pretty well.

Steve
Last edited by lazersteve on March 9th, 2008, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

User avatar
Never_Evil
Active Member
Posts: 130
Joined: August 28th, 2007, 11:59 pm
Location: NE wisconsin

Post by Never_Evil » November 25th, 2007, 3:07 am

I did some quick math in my head and I will try to show my work here. You stated that one milar sheet could yield 1/2 gram, we will use that for our number. It takes 31.1034 grams to get one troy ounce. Quick math to me says you will need at least 63 keyboards to get one troy ounce of silver of todays value of $14.69. Thats a lot of work for what seems very little pay off because of materials needed to recover, almost break even on the deal.

I think this is possibly a project you take a bunch of keyboards into a second grade class with cheap #2 philips screwdrivers and have a group take them apart for you. The kids can use the contact rubber pads for projects, you get the milar steel and wire, and the school can dispose of the plastic (if non recyclable).

lazersteve
Active Member
Posts: 7048
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 11:20 pm
Country of Origin: USA
Location: Florida
Contact:

Mylar Yield Correction

Post by lazersteve » November 25th, 2007, 8:52 am

Evil wrote:You stated that one milar sheet could yield 1/2 gram, ...
I wrote:I can't weigh the BB on my scales due to it's size , but I estimate it is no more than a quarter of a gram. If it is a quarter gram then a single pair of keyboard mylars should produce approximately 1/2 gram of silver per keyboard.
Steve
Last edited by lazersteve on March 9th, 2008, 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The proof is in the pudding.
Purchase refining supplies and DVDs --> Lazersteve's Store
Click Here for the -->Guided Tour Link
Find anything on the Forum FAST!!!---> Click Here
Click Here for -->Stannous Chloride Recipe and Testing Results
What is in Lazersteves DVD's ?

User avatar
Never_Evil
Active Member
Posts: 130
Joined: August 28th, 2007, 11:59 pm
Location: NE wisconsin

Post by Never_Evil » November 25th, 2007, 3:02 pm

My appologies for misinterpretting, I thought you said one pair of mylars AND one keyboard. If we need to redo the math, double it to about 125 keyboards for one troy ounce. That sounds like even more of a waste of time and materials, unless you have other people do it.
single pair of keyboard mylars should produce approximately 1/2 gram of silver per keyboard
dennis[/quote]

banjags
Active Member
Posts: 282
Joined: January 12th, 2008, 11:26 am
Location: Manitoba

Post by banjags » February 1st, 2008, 10:22 am

BUMP...

This is quite interesting. Steve have you pursued this any further.
Would the newer keyboards still use silver? Say 2003 and up?

james122964

Post by james122964 » February 1st, 2008, 4:23 pm

If you ran the mylars through a shredder you could pack them into a smaller container and dissolve quite a few at one time, without having to seperate the sheets.

Jim

User avatar
Gotrek
Active Member
Posts: 285
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 2:47 pm
Location: Mont Pubis

Post by Gotrek » February 4th, 2008, 10:54 am

Similar to the silver traces in the keyboards I routinely use a silver contact/trace repair pen which is nothing more then silver particles in a glue. It yields traces that look exactly like the keyboard pictures posted. I probably go through one or two a month. I'd imagine you could recover the silver from the caked innards of the pen.

I throw them out but it looks like I'll keep them for one of you guys...

Image

MoVegas

Post by MoVegas » February 24th, 2008, 6:13 pm

Hey guys..new to this forum and have already found a lot of useful information. My father owns a recycling bussiness and I can recall one of the customers saying that he used to burn the mylar sheet into an ash. After all the mylar sheets were burnt he would place the ash in a large crucible and heat them for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes the silver would pool in the bottom of the crucible and the slag would stay at the top. I would assume that burning the mylar sheets would not be to safe though. Maybe someone could give this a try.

ThePierCer
Active Member
Posts: 78
Joined: March 10th, 2007, 4:31 pm
Location: Johnston, RI
Contact:

Post by ThePierCer » March 14th, 2008, 5:47 pm

I got a load of 300 keyboards the other day. I dismantled them all and now have a very nice pile of sheets. I'm thinking about using a shallow glass baking pan as a nitric bath to remove all the silver. Thena second one as a clean water bath.

Has anyone had any more progress with these?
Never judge a book by it's cover

ThePierCer
Active Member
Posts: 78
Joined: March 10th, 2007, 4:31 pm
Location: Johnston, RI
Contact:

Post by ThePierCer » March 14th, 2008, 6:00 pm

anyone know about the content of the IDE ribbon cables? Is there anything worth while in them? I've seen prices of .30-.70 / lb at the scrap yards, but i wasn't fire if that was because of the copper content or if there was othere metals in there.
Never judge a book by it's cover

User avatar
Gotrek
Active Member
Posts: 285
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 2:47 pm
Location: Mont Pubis

Post by Gotrek » March 17th, 2008, 9:50 am

ThePierCer wrote:anyone know about the content of the IDE ribbon cables? Is there anything worth while in them? I've seen prices of .30-.70 / lb at the scrap yards, but i wasn't fire if that was because of the copper content or if there was othere metals in there.
As far as I know they don't have copper in them all the ones I've seen have aluminium wire
All the gold which is under or upon the earth is not enough to give in exchange for virtue.

Hakken

Post by Hakken » May 2nd, 2008, 5:07 pm

I just found this thread, and it excites me, as well I've been getting computers from small local schools and wasn't sure what to do with the keyboards besides us them as practice for the local annual keyboard toss competition.

Now I know that I can do more with them.

In fact just today we cracked a keyboard open to see what was inside and I brought the mylars home to toy around with.

User avatar
Rag and Bone
Active Member
Posts: 612
Joined: April 1st, 2008, 7:54 pm
Location: Upper Midwest

Post by Rag and Bone » June 7th, 2008, 1:27 pm

The scrapyard where I cash in most of my base metals has recently dropped the price on ribbon cable (connectors removed) to $0.20 from ~$0.60, Anybody else experience this lately? They said that their buyer did a recovery test on ribbon cable and they might not accept it in the future.
"I prefer virgin territory but I'll take sloppy seconds any day."

Post Reply