Re: Why Red Aqua Regia ??

[prospector_pete]

im hoping someone can help me with a simil;ar problem . i had some solution from when i did 2 kilos of mixed ic chips. the solution was a dark mess which i couldnt do anything with , so i dropped what i hope was gold by using copper.
then i put the black silt into AR . i was extremely delighted when my AR turned a lovely dark orange and when tested with stannous , it immidiately gave a solid black result, i thought wow it must be really concentrated with gold. i have had issues precipitating for years tho , its the final stage of gold recovery that i always have problems with . so i plled out my tiny 250 ml beakers to try several different attempts at dropping gold.
in one beaker i put distilled water on heat and added iron sulfate . i left it on heat for about 10 minutes to try and disolve the powder , once disolved i put hcl to make it go green as id seen on videos . also hokes book talks about adding hcl to iron sulfate.when i poured the iron sulfate solution into the sample of AR , it turned brown and hasnt changed , nothing dropped.

in a second beaker i put AR to almost the top and added smb powder. i kept getting what i thought was either red or brown bubbles . as id never heard of red bubbles , i assumed it must be gold dropping then redisolving. which puzzles me as i had used urea untill no more reaction and there was even a little bit that wouldnt disolve . so i thought how could there possibly be any free nitric.

in a third beaker i put a small amount of AR then added smb which was disolved in water first and warmed up to help disolve . once i added it to the solution it went deep red.
im totally lost , i have no idea why or how it can turn red.

i still have half a coffee pot of the AR , which by the way turned light green after i diluted it to twice its volume and added urea.
what should i do with the remaining solution ?
i would really appreciate your help guys

 

[FrugalRefiner]

My first suggestion would be that you test your solution with stannous chloride. I didn't see any mention of testing, so I'm assuming you did not do any. Colors of solutions are not a good indicator of whether you have gold in solution.

From what you've said, I would guess you added too much nitric acid. Urea will not eliminate excess nitrate. It will react with NO_x in solution, but it will not destroy nitrate ions.

If you have any gold in your solution, I'm guessing it is a small amount. Testing with stannous will answer that question.

If you find you have gold in solution, I would suggest again using copper to cement it out, leaving all the other garbage in the solution.

Dave

 

[prospector_pete]

hi everybody .
i dropped gold by using copper . i was left with a thick black silt.when tested with stannous , it immidiately went jet black
i thoroughly washed the silt with the usual wash process , then i put it in hcl and gradually added small amounts of nitric.
i ended up with a lovely orange colour and i thought wow this must be really concentrated with gold , as i assmued it would be because i had a lot of black silt.
i then used urea till there was no more reaction . i actually had a little urea settled that wouldnt desolve , so i knew there couldnt be free nitric.
i tried 3 ways to precipitate.
i had 3 beakers . in one i put the smb powderand i had coloured bubbles , i couldnt work out if they were redish or brownish. i assumed it was brown since ive never heard of red . and i thought for some reason my gold was redisolving.

in the second beaker i added smb which i first disolved in water . , that went bright red

and the third i tried iron sulfate . ive been trying iron sulfate many times and cant get it right and i cant find any recipes for its use. i see lots of recipes for copperas whic i know is the same thing but its more of green crystals/powder , whereas my iron sulfate is more white.
anyhow i went by the directions in hokes book , i added some hcl to make it go lime green.
but every single time i try using it , the solution goes brown but no gold drops . all that happens is the undesolved iron sulfate settles on the bottom.
so my questions here are .....
why did one of the solutions go bright red . and stayed red.
why did the next have red bubbles and nothing has precipitated from that either .
and thirdly can someone please tell me how to use iron sulfate

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi.
You need to calm down, it is against the forum rules to double post.
And even though these questions are not identical they are close enough.
Keep your posts in one section, it is easier to get the hang of what you have been doing and follow
the progress then. This make it easier to give you proper advise too.
Have you done as you were advised and tested if you have gold in solution at all?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

As Yggdrasil said, calm down and stop posting the same question multiple times. You've posted essentially the same question in three different threads now. I've combined two of them here, and left the other one where it was because the answer I gave referred to posts in that thread.

Find a section to post your question, post it one time, then be patient and wait for people to give you an answer. Posting the same question in multiple places is against forum rules and may get you banned. You can read the forum's rules in Board Policy-------This should be read by everyone.

Dave

 

[niks neims]

hi everybody .
i dropped gold by using copper . i was left with a thick black silt.
i thoroughly washed the silt with the usual wash process , then i put it in hcl and gradually added small amounts of nitric.
i ended up with a lovely orange colour and i thought wow this must be really concentrated with gold , as i assmued it would be because i had a lot of black silt.
i then used urea till there was no more reaction . i actually had a little urea settled that wouldnt desolve , so i knew there couldnt be free nitric.
i tried 3 ways to precipitate.
i had 3 beakers . in one i put the smb powderand i had coloured bubbles , i couldnt work out if they were redish or brownish. i assumed it was brown since ive never heard of red . and i thought for some reason my gold was redisolving.

in the second beaker i added smb which i first disolved in water . , that went bright red

and the third i tried iron sulfate . ive been trying iron sulfate many times and cant get it right and i cant find any recipes for its use. i see lots of recipes for copperas whic i know is the same thing but its more of green crystals/powder , whereas my iron sulfate is more white.
anyhow i went by the directions in hokes book , i added some hcl to make it go lime green.
but every single time i try using it , the solution goes brown but no gold drops . all that happens is the undesolved iron sulfate settles on the bottom.
so my questions here are .....
why did one of the solutions go bright red . and stayed red.
why did the next have red bubbles and nothing has precipitated from that either .
and thirdly can someone please tell me how to use iron sulfate

I think you are using wrong kind of iron sulfate, you need this stuff:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(II)_sulfate

Brown crystals won't work, haven't heard about white.... green, heptahydrate, works great, love precipitating with it, haven't had any problems whatsoever

 

[prospector_pete]

im in australia , we cant get copperas here . or even ferrous sulfate . iron sulfate is my only option
this was in the gardening section of the hardware store . its what they sell here in australia . our equivilent to copperas

 

[Yggdrasil]

As far as I know they are all the same, just different names.
FeSO4 named: Green Vitriol, Copperas, Iron sulfate and so on.
BUT it has to be fresh and not oxidated, which means a nice green color.

Edited typing error

 

[prospector_pete]

ok im sorry for double posting.

when hcl is added it goes green which is how ive seen copperas used .
can someone plz give me directions on how to use this

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have never used it, but due to the color it may be dehydrated or have some additives to it.
You need to read the labels thoroughly.

Added:
You still haven't told if you have tested it for gold in the first place?
What did your test show?

One thing is sure: If there is no gold in it, there will be no gold to precipitate out of solution.

 

[prospector_pete]

im certain that its exactly the same as any other iron sulfate , just different packaging.
in any case , if i could please have the directions to use the iron sulfate you know of .,
i will try those directions with this and i will soon see if its ok to use

 

[Yggdrasil]

Ok it became black.
If it is denoxed and else ready,
we need to establish that it is black due to concentrated gold and not something else.
Take a drop and dilute it with 10 drops of water.
Take the test again and tell us what it shows.
Pictures would be nice.

 

[Yggdrasil]

im certain that its exactly the same as any other iron sulfate , just different packaging.
in any case , if i could please have the directions to use the iron sulfate you know of .,
i will try those directions with this and i will soon see if its ok to use

As I said before I have never used Copperas.
There are loads of posts describing its use so search and you will find it.

 

[prospector_pete]

ok you might not have used copperas , but have you used iron sulfate ?.
if you havent , is there somebody else who has.
please i just want a rough description on how much to use , does it need to be filtered , heated , etc

 

[Yggdrasil]

My point from earlier still goes:
Copperas aka Iron sulfate aka Ferrous sulfate aka Green Vitriol is the same.
And even if you had a completely black test with Stannous I would recommend to dilute it and see what color it will be then, it should become a beautiful purple.

Because it there is no gold dissolved in the solution there is no gold to precipitate.

We can't be holding your hand through this, you have to do the work yourself so you learn things.
Search the forum, it is all there.

 

[prospector_pete]

wow . i thought this is what forums were for . to ask advice.
you make it sound like a crime that i ask for some direction here .
i have already been experimenting prior to asking on here . i have read hokes book and tried to follow the directions .

i ask here for a little help and you jump down my throat , how dare i ask for advice . what was i thinking

 

[Yggdrasil]

It was not intended that way, but you have been given advice on the topic you asked for.
It does not seem you are happy about the answer so you ask again.
So then you have been given information on how to find the information needed.
And now you are unhappy about that to.
Well I'm out of this thread.

 

[butcher]

prospector_pete,
the white powder in your picture is not copperas, FeSO4, ferrous sulfate, Iron (II) sulfate, or fresh salts of iron sulfate, or green vitriol, or the fresh green heptahydrate crystals (hydrated with 7 molecules of water) but a dehydrated form of the original salt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(II)_sulfate

Garden centers or dietary supplements often sell iron sulfate in the form of ferric sulfate, iron (III) Sulfate Fe2(SO4)3 which is where the fresh copperas has been decomposed by exposure to air heat or oxygen.
A dehydrated form of iron sulfate powders which upon exposure to air, it oxidizes to form a white or corrosive brown-yellow coating of "basic ferric sulfate", which is an adduct of iron(III) oxide and iron(III) sulfate:

12 FeSO4 + 3 O2 → 4 Fe2(SO4)3 + 2 Fe2O3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_sulfate


Copperas is easy to make and keep fresh and store, it can be used in testing for gold and precipitating gold from solution, I have made several posts on how to make and use it...
You can easily make copperas or ferrous sulfate with iron metal and diluted battery acid 10% H2SO4.

Use the search function with the keywords you find here on this page and you will find many posts on the subject, refine your search with authors, and the keywords you find in that search for more information on the subject...

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=copperas&terms=all&author=butcher&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

As a bonus to your search I suggest you do some study on Harold's advice on using copperas, He explains some very gifted techniques in testing for gold and the platinum group metals in the spot dish...

The forum is for asking questions and we all try to help, but we cannot teach or put the information in your head. We can answer some questions, but without you doing the hard work of study on your own the answers to a million questions will lead you to nowhere, where a study of the subject, may lead to more questions, but you gain a wealth of knowledge along on your journey to becoming more successful...

 

[prospector_pete]

ok thankyou for your decent reply and for the info.
the iron sulfate i have is the only thing sold in garden sections of any store in the city i live in.
i will try making it as per the link you gave me .
i appreciate your help

 

[prospector_pete]

please dont jump down my throat ,
ive read posts on this forum until i have square eys.
and in response to your reply i figure ok i will just make my own iron sulfate and abandon the stuff i bought. ( im taking your advice)
but despite looking at the links u provided , i cant find directions on how to make my own , atleast not in lamens terms.

can i please bother someone for directions on how to make copperas, and then how to use it.
in lamens terms please