We have just purchased a oxy hydrogen torch system. We have knowledge of how to use a oxy accetalene system. There seems to be very little information on the set up and use of the oxy hydrogen torch. The information I have read makes me very nourvous about explosions. Can anyone advise me about the set up and use of my Oxy hydrogen torch system.
Need help with using oxy hydrogen torch!
- Thread starter LYOF8
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Dan Dement
Well-known member
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- Feb 22, 2012
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Dear Ly,
We cast Platinum using Hydrogen & O2 for years. Understand, Hydrogen is very explosive and you need backflow preventers to insure you do not a backfire explosion. Yes, the flame can back up the lines into the bottle and explode. Remember the 1937 Hindenburg Blimp explosion? Hydrogen has lots BTU's and will melt most high heat metals. Just be careful and take the proper safety precautions.
Dan
We cast Platinum using Hydrogen & O2 for years. Understand, Hydrogen is very explosive and you need backflow preventers to insure you do not a backfire explosion. Yes, the flame can back up the lines into the bottle and explode. Remember the 1937 Hindenburg Blimp explosion? Hydrogen has lots BTU's and will melt most high heat metals. Just be careful and take the proper safety precautions.
Dan
Check valves or back flow preventions, normally plumbed in where the gas hoses attach to the torch handle allow the gas to flow one direction only, from the tank to the torch, if a torch head that gets too hot or dirty or handled wrong, the gases that normally just burn outside the torch, can begin to burn the gas inside the torch (when this happens the torch will begin to make a strange loud hissing noise), as the gas inside burns back inside the torch, the backflow prevention (check valves) keep this from burning back into the hoses and into the tank which could cause an explosion.
1937 was before I was born, I do not have any memory of it :lol: but then again I cannot remember what happened yesterday either.
1937 was before I was born, I do not have any memory of it :lol: but then again I cannot remember what happened yesterday either.
I can understand how the flame could make it's way back to the mixing valve but what about up a pressurized line? In order for you to have a flame you must have an oxidizer or oxygen in the line at a high enough concentration to cause a chemical reaction. That's what a flame is. Hydrogen by itself doesn't burn.
Well I cannot answer how it burns back up into the torch handle and back up into a pressurized line (without the aid of added oxygen to the fuel), but I do know it will, I have never had a tank, or regulator explode, (I keep good backflow prevention valves on my torches), but I have had it burn back up into the torch many times (normally when getting the torch too hot, when this happens I normally shut off fuel supply cool the torch head and clean the torch.
I also check the operation and condition of my back flow prevention devices, every so often to make sure they are in good working order.
This is the purpose of the back flow prevention check valve on your lines, to prevent the gas from burning back up into the torch towards the tank or regulators.
Also for those using oxygen on their torches, never use oil or grease on any parts of the torch, tank regulator or fittings, this can also cause an explosion, also do not use plumbers pipe dope to stop leaks, it contains oils and can cause an explosion.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&spell=1&q=purpose+of+backflow+prevention+device+on+acetylene+oxygen+torch&sa=X&psj=1&ei=mw8SUfXtBenLigKPvIHADA&ved=0CCwQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=abfef61ff81de054&biw=1024&bih=539
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&q=safety+precautions+using+oxygen+acetylene+torch&oq=safety+precautions+using+oxygen+acetylene+torch&gs_l=serp.12...0.0.2.6532.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..2.serp.hmGDIKWENIE&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=abfef61ff81de054&biw=1024&bih=539
info from Wiki:
Non-return valveAcetylene is not just flammable, in certain conditions it is also an explosive. Although it has an upper flammability limit in air of 81%,[5] acetylene's explosive decomposition behaviour makes this irrelevant. If a detonation wave enters the acetylene tank, the tank will be blown apart by the decomposition. Ordinary check valves that normally prevent back flow can not stop a detonation wave as they are not capable of closing before the wave passes around the gate, and for that reason a flashback arrestor is needed. It is designed to operate before the detonation wave makes it from the hose side to the supply side.
Between the regulator and hose, and ideally between hose and torch on both oxygen and fuel lines, a flashback arrestor and/or non-return valve (check valve) should be installed to prevent flame or oxygen-fuel mixture being pushed back into either cylinder and damaging the equipment or making a cylinder explode.
European practice is to fit flashback arrestors at the regulator and check valves at the torch. US practice is to fit both at the regulator.
The flashback arrestor (not to be confused with a check valve) prevents the shock waves from downstream coming back up the hoses and entering the cylinder (possibly rupturing it), as there are quantities of fuel/oxygen mixtures inside parts of the equipment (specifically within the mixer and blowpipe/nozzle) that may explode if the equipment is incorrectly shut down; and acetylene decomposes at excessive pressures or temperatures. The flashback arrestor will remain switched off until someone resets it, in case the pressure wave created a leak downstream of the arrestor.
Check valve A check valve lets gas flow in one direction only. Not to be confused with a flashback arrestor, a check valve is not designed to block a shock wave. The pressure wave could occur while the ball is so far from the inlet that the pressure wave gets past before the ball reaches its off position. A check valve is usually a chamber containing a ball that is pressed against one end by a spring: gas flow one way pushes the ball out of the way, and no flow or flow the other way lets the spring push the ball into the inlet, blocking it.
I also check the operation and condition of my back flow prevention devices, every so often to make sure they are in good working order.
This is the purpose of the back flow prevention check valve on your lines, to prevent the gas from burning back up into the torch towards the tank or regulators.
Also for those using oxygen on their torches, never use oil or grease on any parts of the torch, tank regulator or fittings, this can also cause an explosion, also do not use plumbers pipe dope to stop leaks, it contains oils and can cause an explosion.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&spell=1&q=purpose+of+backflow+prevention+device+on+acetylene+oxygen+torch&sa=X&psj=1&ei=mw8SUfXtBenLigKPvIHADA&ved=0CCwQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=abfef61ff81de054&biw=1024&bih=539
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1R2RNQN_enUS457&q=safety+precautions+using+oxygen+acetylene+torch&oq=safety+precautions+using+oxygen+acetylene+torch&gs_l=serp.12...0.0.2.6532.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..2.serp.hmGDIKWENIE&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=abfef61ff81de054&biw=1024&bih=539
info from Wiki:
Non-return valveAcetylene is not just flammable, in certain conditions it is also an explosive. Although it has an upper flammability limit in air of 81%,[5] acetylene's explosive decomposition behaviour makes this irrelevant. If a detonation wave enters the acetylene tank, the tank will be blown apart by the decomposition. Ordinary check valves that normally prevent back flow can not stop a detonation wave as they are not capable of closing before the wave passes around the gate, and for that reason a flashback arrestor is needed. It is designed to operate before the detonation wave makes it from the hose side to the supply side.
Between the regulator and hose, and ideally between hose and torch on both oxygen and fuel lines, a flashback arrestor and/or non-return valve (check valve) should be installed to prevent flame or oxygen-fuel mixture being pushed back into either cylinder and damaging the equipment or making a cylinder explode.
European practice is to fit flashback arrestors at the regulator and check valves at the torch. US practice is to fit both at the regulator.
The flashback arrestor (not to be confused with a check valve) prevents the shock waves from downstream coming back up the hoses and entering the cylinder (possibly rupturing it), as there are quantities of fuel/oxygen mixtures inside parts of the equipment (specifically within the mixer and blowpipe/nozzle) that may explode if the equipment is incorrectly shut down; and acetylene decomposes at excessive pressures or temperatures. The flashback arrestor will remain switched off until someone resets it, in case the pressure wave created a leak downstream of the arrestor.
Check valve A check valve lets gas flow in one direction only. Not to be confused with a flashback arrestor, a check valve is not designed to block a shock wave. The pressure wave could occur while the ball is so far from the inlet that the pressure wave gets past before the ball reaches its off position. A check valve is usually a chamber containing a ball that is pressed against one end by a spring: gas flow one way pushes the ball out of the way, and no flow or flow the other way lets the spring push the ball into the inlet, blocking it.
Woodworker1997
Well-known member
Butcher,
You wake up too early and beat me to it! :lol:
Derek
You wake up too early and beat me to it! :lol:
Derek
Wow thank you for all the advice! We have 2sets of flash back one set for the connection at the regulator and the other between the hose and the torch. Are there any other precautions I should be aware of, and after using the torch how are the lines cleared of gas? Should the system be disassembled or can it remain set up for the next time it's needed?
When connecting all the equipment is Teflon tape used for a leak proof connection?
When connecting all the equipment is Teflon tape used for a leak proof connection?
Woodworker1997
Well-known member
When you are done for the day. Shut the bottles off, purge fuel line first, shut valve. Purge O2, shut valve. Lastly back off the regulator screws.
That's it. Just remember never leave pressure in the lines or regulator screws in the in use position.
Melting metal with fire is very fun, just be safe.
Derek
That's it. Just remember never leave pressure in the lines or regulator screws in the in use position.
Melting metal with fire is very fun, just be safe.
Derek
Woodworker1997
Well-known member
Welcome!
Be sure to post your melted values.
Derek
Be sure to post your melted values.
Derek
lysdexic
Well-known member
Sorry for bumping another older thread, but I can't find an answer to a question. I have been thinking about switching from acetylene to hydrogen as the fuel for my oxy fuel torch so I can use it for melting without the carbon contamination. Back when there was that explosion at one of the main acetylene manufacturing plants I started talking to the guy from the company that supplies helium to the place I work. At that time he had told me many people were switching to hydrogen for cutting and doing no welding and using another "propane based" gas (don't recall the name, something like propylene) if they did welding. Anyway... recently I asked him about the price difference between hydrogen and acetylene. Long story short, he told me the problem with oxy-hydrogen is that the flame was invisible therefore difficult to adjust (reducing, neutral, oxidizing). I'm guessing that torch in lazersteves avatar is oxy-hydrogen? The guy I spoke with is a smaller local company and the place I do business with is a huge conglomerate. I wanted to switch over my leases on cylinders to them, I prefer smaller/local when possible, but I will not tolerate someone blowing smoke up the ole tailpipe. Thanks in advance to any who can take the time to shed some light on this.
He told you the truth. The H2/O2 flame is invisible, unless your torch tip is dirty.
lysdexic
Well-known member
goldsilverpro (Chris is it?)- Thank you, how do you work around this? I'm going to research it further but asking someone who actually has experience with something usually has a much better yield.
hello LYOF8,Keep in mind that When the pressure gauge rises to 0.1Mpa,you can ignite the torch.Some tips for flameout operation.You should quickly close the torch valve.then turn off the power switch.If slowly close valve,it may cause backfire.Then open the valve to drain the remaining gas.When the pressure gauge drops to "0",close the valve.
I hope this help you about how to install the oxyhydrogen torch and several oxyhydrogen torches,flashback arrestor,using oxyhydrogen torch.
https://www.okayenergy.com/video/company-video/how-to-use-hho-generator.html
I hope this help you about how to install the oxyhydrogen torch and several oxyhydrogen torches,flashback arrestor,using oxyhydrogen torch.
https://www.okayenergy.com/video/company-video/how-to-use-hho-generator.html
