JPSinden said:
galenrog said:
Open burning of e-waste = VERY BAD IDEA!! It has been attempted and the outcomes eventually cause you to lose PM's, it's bad for the environment and the fumes released - even from a furnace - is too toxic to make the effort worth while and down right irresponsible in our current climate.
What you are left with, if you managed to not die in the process and you managed to get it right, is a lump of metal that will just cause headaches trying to process.
The better way (from one of the responses) is with wet leaching which I will study up on and ask questions about before making any form of even the slightest attempt to pursue.
First off I TOTALY agree that "open burning of e-waste is a VERY BAD IDEA - & as you say - bad for the environment as a result of the (toxic) fumes (& gases) produced with open burning (incineration)
However - that said - I have to disagree with your comment that it is bad for the environment "even in a furnace" --- &/or that wet leaching is "the better way" to go for processing e-waste over that of incineration
And for that matter I disagree that incineration )followed by smelting) "cause's you to lose PMS"
PROPER incineration (followed by smelting) is much more environment friendly then wet leaching (of e-waste) which is why "most" (if not "all") THE BIG BOYS process e-waste by incineration (followed by smelting)
PROPER incineration - which takes place in the furnace "destroys" most (but not all) toxins (fumes &/or gases) --- it's a matter of getting "complete" combustion of the fumes/gases which is a matter of temperature & retention time (of the fumes/gases) along with a surplus of oxygen for complete combustion
In a "proper" incinerator (furnace) the (toxic) fumes &/or gases need to be mixed with a surplus of oxygen which is done by injecting the oxygen in away that it creates a turbulence in the burn chamber --- when I use my smelting furnace for incineration the oxygen is provided through the burner & the turbulence is provided by the cyclone action of the flame swirling around in the furnace --- this same cyclone action "retains" the fumes/gases in the furnace (long enough for complete combustion) as opposed to going "straight" out the exhaust hole
For complete combustion you need a temp of "at least" 850 degrees C (1,560 F) for at least 2 seconds --- my furnace gets hot enough to melt copper which has a melt point of 1,085 C (1,984 F) --- so between the cyclone action & temp my furnace provides all three - oxygen mixing - retention time & temp for complete combustion of "most" of the toxic fumes/gases
I say "most" because "some" acidic gases still go out the furnace vent hole - however - that said - these acidic gases are FAR less then the acidic fumes given off in wet (acidic) leaching
Example; - incinerating 10 pound of IC chip (in my furnace) will produce FAR less acidic gases then the acidic fumes produced leaching 10 pound of fingers (to recover foils) with HCl (AP process) or nitric - both of which produce huge amount of acidic fumes in comparison --- if I had to guess the fumes of acidic leaching is probably 10 - 20 times that of the acid gases produced (properly) incinerating the same amount of material --- & with wet leaching you still have ALL the "toxic" chemical waste to deal with !!!
AND - just like wet leaching reactions "should be run through a scrubber" the (lessor) acidic gases from incineration can/should be scrubbed
The other 2 problems with incineration are the heavy metal "vapors" (such as mercury, lead etc.) created at the high temps of incineration & the fly ash produced --- both of these problems can be dealt with - with cooling & a bag house - cooling allows the heavy metal vapors to condense & collect on the fly ash which then drops out in the bag house
In a small operation like my smelting furnace (used for incineration) 2 or 3 - 55 gallon drums will work as a bag house - where in air speed slows down allowing cooling of the vapors - allowing them to condense on the fly ash & drop out in the bag house (drums) because air speed is slowed down --- in other words - just like you should be running a "fume hood" with a scrubber for proper wet leaching - you should be running a vent hood with bag house for proper incineration
Bottom line - BOTH - wet chemical leaching &/or incineration - whether done on a "small" or large scale are "hazardous" to your health &/or the environment when NOT done properly
I mean lets be real here - this forum is FULL of info concerning ALL of the safety measures "required" to safely do wet chemistry leaching including dealing with the TOXIC leach waste products --- that's because wet leaching is "in fact" hazardous to your health & the environment - when not properly done
The other fact is - that "most" (if not all) THE BIG BOYS (for good reason) use incineration/smelting for e-waste metal recovery - instead of wet chemical leaching for e-waste metal recovery --- its because incineration/smelting is more environmental friendly then chemical leaching --- when done properly
As far as I am concerned - the only real reason wet chemical leaching is the "go to" method is because that is the method most discussed here on the forum (like 90% plus discussion)
There is really no reason the "small hobby" guy can't set up to do incineration/smelting rather then wet leaching - incineration/smelting just isn't discussed enough IMO
I spent many years using wet leaching - but - before I shut my operation down I was leaning more & more to running an incineration/smelting process & if I ever set up to process e-waste again I would set it up as "primarily" a smelting operation & limited wet leaching process
For what its worth :mrgreen:
Kurt