High grade gold ore in difficult location.

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cuchugold

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
243
Please post any and all suggestions for recovery/concentration of high grade vein and placer ore (5 oz per Ton and higher), in a very remote and inhospitable location, with no steady water, roads, etc. Only stuff that is available on site is wood if you need a furnace, fish and game for food within 1 mile, but no chance of getting a pipeline for water or fuel. Have made some experiments off location using a modified cupola furnace with several additions of litharge and flour once the charge is liquid. Building a large 10 Ton cupola on location is difficult, but doable. Results aren't good so far. Also any ideas for fluxing the charge which is mainly 65 % quartz and 25% clay, and about 1% coltan.
 
To clarify:
1-The ore cannot be transported out of the site.
2-There are no access roads.
3-A large plant cannot be established on the site.
4-The current solution of smelting the rock is not working because the temperature cannot get high enough to melt the quartz. There is no way to bring or make an oxygen plant on the site.
5-All labor must be manual, or very rudimentary.
6-It is hard to accumulate or build a water deposit, or a mill.
7-Mining this site is a clandestine operation, subject to high personal risks.
 
From placer it is 100% free gold. From vein, who knows really?. It would depend on the crushing/milling method. I don't want to crush it with a mortar by hand.
 
Arid?

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th world environment?

#7, risk of death? Incarceration?

Cyanide still seems like it would be more reasonable than melting flint, as unless you can find a suitable flux nearby, you will not be able to attain a glass with a low enough viscosity to collect the gold prills.

What other minerals are present nearby? You really need something with a lot of sodium or potassium salt present to get that melting point down.

Do you have constant sunlight or wind for an alternative power solution?



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It's all precambrian rock, and sediments thereof. All sort of stuff somewhere within a few miles, but not really accessible, because it's hard to move around and bring things to the site. Impossible to set a plant or a visible operation. There is rain water and seasonal streams, but without pumps, etc. The placer can be panned, but it's hard work for low volume. All sorts of military and gangs rule the surroundings, but the territory is vast. Really one does not want to attract attention.
 
Dig a pit a large one take lots of plastic tarpaulin lightweight sheets and catch rainfall when it comes directed to the pit. Dont forget to line the pit with tarp. Have it covered over to prevent evaporation and provide some stealth at least to its storage.
Have a second dry pit dug to store materials youve lugged up there or are using in.
Take a fresnel lens to heat water start fires melt bits of rock with. They easily reach 1300c and more. Thats celcius not farenheit. U can get one off front of a old tv check on youtube what u can do with one.
You could rig a primitive hammer mill up with the right pulley gearing system and a windmill. Or attach to back wheel of a bicycle and pedal it like an exercise bike.
Say like a timber A frame with something like a tree trunk on a rope suspended. A gear system to lighten the weight u have to pull it up and a slip so it drops sharply
A half ton trunk on its end would probably only need to drop a foot or so to crush fist size rocks to nothing.
 
cuchugold said:
It's all precambrian rock, and sediments thereof. All sort of stuff somewhere within a few miles, but not really accessible, because it's hard to move around and bring things to the site. Impossible to set a plant or a visible operation. There is rain water and seasonal streams, but without pumps, etc. The placer can be panned, but it's hard work for low volume. All sorts of military and gangs rule the surroundings, but the territory is vast. Really one does not want to attract attention.

So what do you plan on smelting 10 tons of ore with in regards to fuel? Ever tried to get a small chamber up to 1400 deg F with wood only? It's difficult even when you have good fuel and excellent refractory...and are only heating air. (studio pottery and glass blowing experience, both of which basically require doing what you are trying to do)

I can see lots of ways you could do guerilla mining and recovery of concentrates, even treatment of concentrates, on a small scale, but when you start talking about crushing ore, smelting, etc you are talking about very visible/attention attracting activities.

How do you plan on moving your ore? All by hand?
 
Thanks for the ideas. I do not have a solution I like yet for the vein gold. The cupola does not melt the quartz below 1700 C, and not with wood. A normal cupola is for converting copper oxide to copper at about 1100 C. My plan is to finish off as much as I can the placer deposits using a rocker and pan. I have not found the big vein yet. I'll keep looking, and blasting rock during storms. The thing is, at some point I have to favor mining what I have already over looking for bigger and better deposits. This is more than good enough.
 
Yes, but you don't have copper oxide, you have a very rich ore with high melting temperature minerals that is low in metal.

You need to find a fluxing material that you can move if you want to smelt. The way I have done this in the past for glaze development is to make a spot plate out of clay...just literally a plate with thumbprint depressions. Then I'd put a gram of different minerals in each depression and fire to a known temperature. If I was doing this in the field, I'd take pre-made spot plates, that have etched numbers on them. In each depression, put a different formulation of first, just materials you think may flux well. Feldspar, dolomite, whiting, etc. You can determine your best melt by heating and measuring how far it "spreads". Once you've found your best flux, then you start to mix your ore with flux at different ratios to see what one you can realistically achieve.

You need a way to get oxygen to the fire. A traditional mexican (I think) pottery burner uses a venturi burner with zero electrical input. So you have your tapered tube, but at the front of it is a piece of pipe. This piece of pipe has a tank of oil hooked up to it as well as an orifice at the small part of the tapered tube. This sprays oil when the oil in the big part of the tapered tube is heated, forcing combustion air through the tapered tube.

Now, I doubt you've got oil...but even a small wood fire will move a large volume of air. If you have fuel (pit made charcoal) in the cupola, you MIGHT be able to maintain a temperature that will glass the ore and hopefully concentrate values.


I still think you'd be better with cyanide. Read this thread, and consider that your ore is as rich as most e-scrap, without all of the other base metals which confuse the issue for e-scrap. It's easy to get cell voltage and enough flow just using batteries and solar cells, which could be very easily hidden in a tree.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=24899
 
To add...sluicing could be done away from water source using a ram pump if you have sufficient changes in elevation. No electricity....just uses gravity flow of existing elevation change to pump water long distances.


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At these grades, IN THEORY, you have to do gravity concentration, before cyanidation of the tailings IMO. Not really worth your time to do tailings, when there is so much high grade ore. First you pick up the large nuggets, then the smaller, then the dust, then centrifugate, then cyanide, etc. The issue is the plant and visibility. Many operations have been shut down, equipment stolen, miners missing, etc. Nobody really owns this land. The wild west or Alaska were a cocktail party compared to these criminals/military, etc. Right now is a bad time to get down there as the new governor is exterminating the gangs loyal to the old governor, military, etc, etc, etc.
I repeat: This is a clandestine operation, to be kept small, and private. I move in and out at dawn/dusk, make noise only during storms, etc. Smuggle the gold out using a very safe protocol. You can hear anyone coming since it is perfect solitude. Few can handle this level of freedom. The area is the size of Spain, but only a few thousand people are dispersed throughout the territory. There is gold, diamonds, Uranium, Coltan, etc, etc, etc, In amounts that rival the original deposits of California, Colorado or the Klondike, or wherever. These are the original, oldest rocks on the planet. All valuable minerals are here. Come and get them!.

All international mining corps have lost millions trying to operate here. Chinese, russians, etc, etc. They come and die by malaria, bullet, boredom, or else.

Jimmie Angel (Angel Falls named after he landed on the wrong mountain of gold), spent most of his adventuring life here, before I was born, looking for "the river of gold". Many stories, some true, some myth, but tons of gold on the ground. I'll leave the lesser minerals for others.
 
Technically you have three options.

Somehow get water to the plant to set up a leach operation.

Dry mill the ore and sluice it to get a con which can be packed out, recycling of water can be practiced. Accept that large losses will occur in your processing.

Walk away from the whole operation.


Deano
 
Deano said:
Walk away from the whole operation.

Best option!

The snakes with scales are the first thing that would have me opting for option three, followed closely by snakes with guns.
 
It almost sounds like a book or movie is being written here.

Think about this, the mere traveling to and from your home to the "mining" site sounds like a matter of life and death. Every time you make the trip, your chances of encountering those you don't want to encounter increases.

We talk about safety as it relates to recovery and refining of precious metals. If you ask me, please stop what you are doing. This has the makings of a very bad outcome that pales in comparison to what is routinely stated here on this forum when some member uses chemicals without knowing what they are doing. Your life is worth more than 5 toz per ton. Heck, there are unworked mines with 8 toz per ton that have access to water, power and roads and they sit because it is not economical, That is due reportedly to the fact that the only two smelters left (Arizona and Idaho) are too far away and the price of gold would need to be $3,000 per troy ounce with everything else staying the same.
 
Deano said:
Technically you have three options.

Somehow get water to the plant to set up a leach operation.

Dry mill the ore and sluice it to get a con which can be packed out, recycling of water can be practiced. Accept that large losses will occur in your processing.

Walk away from the whole operation.


Deano
Straight up!. That's the truth. Thanks for the objective appraisal, Deano.
 
geedigity said:
It almost sounds like a book or movie is being written here.

Think about this, the mere traveling to and from your home to the "mining" site sounds like a matter of life and death. Every time you make the trip, your chances of encountering those you don't want to encounter increases.

We talk about safety as it relates to recovery and refining of precious metals. If you ask me, please stop what you are doing. This has the makings of a very bad outcome that pales in comparison to what is routinely stated here on this forum when some member uses chemicals without knowing what they are doing. Your life is worth more than 5 toz per ton. Heck, there are unworked mines with 8 toz per ton that have access to water, power and roads and they sit because it is not economical, That is due reportedly to the fact that the only two smelters left (Arizona and Idaho) are too far away and the price of gold would need to be $3,000 per troy ounce with everything else staying the same.
The novel or movie is not a bad idea, but there are better ones, like Jimmies' life far more interesting, that failed already. As to the safety moving in or out or being there, I feel pretty good about it. Cities are less safe, IMO.
 
Typical nuggets I pan, along with lot more fines. I showed them to some amateur and he immediately said: Get a good metal detector!. What an idiot I am!...Any recommendations for best quality and portable size (less than 30 kg in weight)?. These are the bigger size nuggets I find. If I can find the vein that originated them (if it still exits), I'm golden... literally.nuggets.jpg
 
Request made at the metal detector site:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/558814-please-recommend-metal-detector-specific-mining-purpose.html#post5587677
"I have access to a site that produces the small nuggets depicted in the attached photo. There are also plenty of smaller gold particles, that also count.

I wish to detect these in quantity before determining where to dig.

I need a portable detector that is very sensitive and detects as deep as possible, but weighs less than 30 Kg.

I favor sensitivity over discrimination, as there is no trash or other metals present at the mine site.

I'd like the main detector also to work on quartz rock to determine if there are veins of gold deep inside, before I blast the rock.

I also would like to have a separate miniature detector to lower with a rope down a small deep hole (like a drilling core) made to see if near bedrock there is a lot of gold. I have seen some the size of a flashlight.

Thanks to any and all responses, in advance."
 
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