Situations to Avoid--The Safety Thread

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Lou

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As refiners, we use potentially dangerous chemicals and equipment on a frequent basis. Safety usually comes with experience but so too can complacency. It is my intention that this thread will help to educate our users and fellow refiners about what not to do in the laboratory and about how hazardous situations develop, and also some commonsense on what to do should you find yourself in a predicament.

In the scope of this thread:

  • We will discuss problems and remedies.
    We will discuss various situations and conditions to avoid.
    We will cover proper chemical technique: materials compatibility, problems in scaling up reactions, handling chemicals safety, lab hygiene.
    We will touch on waste disposal.
Basically, this will be what not to mix together, where and how to work in refining, and how to be responsible to yourself, your neighbors, and the environment. We will also touch on the basics of what to do if something does go wrong, but most our efforts are on prevention.

This will be a work in progress (I will continually update as more things come to mind) and I greatly welcome any valid contributions that members here may make. This is a serious thread about a serious issue that we all need to take note of and ensure safe refining practices. As such, posts are expected to remain on topic with information organized compactly. Thoughts and comments about this thread are welcome, but I will move them from here to a dedicated thread. I think this thread has been a long time coming. Hopefully we'll all help each other to avoid problems.



Our maxim is: Forewarned is forearmed.
 
Excellent thread idea Lou,

I'll start it off with a really basic one.

Never add water to concentrated acids.

Always add acid to water.

Adding water to concentrated acids, especially sulfuric acid, will cause the acid to sputter and spit. The violent reaction produces lots of heat very fast and the randomly flying acid can cause serious damage to your eyes, skin, clothes, and property.

On the same lines of sulfuric acid, exercise extreme caution when working with concentrated sulfuric acid.

Never handle hot sulfuric acid until it cools.

When handling concentrated sulfuric acid always wear proper safety gear including gloves, goggles, and an apron at a minimum.

Do not fill beaker of concentrated acid to the brim as the liquid is easier to spill.

Do not breath the white fumes that form from hot concentrated sulfuric acid.

Keep a neutralizing agent handy (baking soda) in case of spills.

Work in a clean and clear area.

Don't eat or drink when working with sulfuric acid.

Always read the MSDS of any and all chemicals and the possible reaction products BEFORE working with any chemicals.

Be prepared for the worst case scenario before you begin your reaction.

Steve
 
I would think a spill kit would be worth the time and effort to put together for any size refining operation.

Working on cardboard as Steve does not only absorbs drips and small spills but also prevents scratching or bumping your glass ware.

A roll of paper towels are handy for the little stuff, but absorbent mats and socks rated for acids aren't cheap but could prove to be invaluable if the need arose. Many of these absorbent products are low ash and although a big project your values can be recovered. Cat liter as a last choice but better than nothing when you need it.

Enough baking soda or soda ash for the scale of your processing should be close at hand. This could be as small as a box of baking soda or several 50# bags of soda ash.

Now I work outdoors and keep the water hose on and near where I work. That serves as an eye or body wash should the need arise. If you don't have a water source very nearby you should seriously consider getting one or at least a couple 5 gallon buckets full of clean water with lids that fit but don't lock. Cut the locking tabs off if you have to.

Storing your acids (new or used) in plastic storage boxes provides secondary containment should one of those bottles or jugs fail. All my new acids, active solutions, and spent wastes in beakers bottles or buckets are placed in storage containers just in case.

Be safe everyone.
 
Here is a brief list of things that are incompatible with each other:

Aqueous ammonia and free halogens.
This means NH3 and F2, Cl2, Br2, and I2.
In particular, the combination of ammonia and chlorine or ammonia and iodine. Both of those form highly reactive and highly unstable explosives, NCl3 and NI3 which can explode with the slightest agitation.

NCl3 is far more stable than NI3 because it is a liquid and has no crystalline structure. In the case of nitrogen triiodide, if any is accidentally formed, extreme caution must be exercised in its disposal; if large quantities are formed, spontaneous detonation is probable, and the area should be cleared of persons and then property and authorities notified. The material is most sensitive when dry, and will detonate or deflagrate at the touch of a feather.

Nitrogen trichloride is an explosive yellow oil which slowly hydrolyzes in water--it can be decomposed by basic hydrolysis with sodium hydroxide. It is extremely irritating the eyes and mucosa.

Silver nitrate should not be mixed with ammonia water because it can form "fulminating silver" especially upon long standing. See this thread for further details: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=944&highlight=nitride

Soluble copper and silver compounds should not be added to oxalic acid solutions, as potentially explosive oxalate salts can form.


More coming soon...
 
Hi folks
Thanks for your helpful work
Lou
That link you posted is not working
As a matter of fact since the format of this forum changed a lot of the old links are not working
I hope someone will take the responsibility to fix these bad links
Thanks
God Bless You
 
Also I am getting this message sometimes

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Here is one example


http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=325&hilit=getting+pure+gold+shining&start=60
 
I'll check it out. Links worked for me, but it may be that one of the mods here already fixed them. Try them again. If it still doesn't work, it's probably another kink in our recent forum upgrade. I'll take the time to look into this more closely after I hear back from you.


I will be updating this thread. I intended to do a LOT more with it than I have.

EDIT: Thank you Steve for updating the links in this post, I appreciate you saving me the trouble!
 
Hi Lou
The link is working now Thanks


If you go to this page

There is this message I notice that in other pages also
That is something that happened after the changes that were done to the site
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Thanks again

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=325&hilit=getting+pure+gold+shining&start=60
 
damn, I didn't know than mix of silver and ammonia gets a bomb! I have a jar of silver chloride near a bottle of ammonia....thanks by this post guys
Texas
 
My first post!

Never, ever add acid to cyanide solution. This will instantly produce cyanide gas! Cyanide gas is what is used to kill the condemned in gas chambers.

Always wear faceshields when working with acids and bases and if you expect an energetic reaction. You only have two eyes. Protect them.
 
Do you have safety eyewash stations / bottles? Can you find them with your eyes closed, which they will be if you get something in them.

Your eyes are probably the most important part of your body. Take care of them.
 
Lou said:
As refiners, we use potentially dangerous chemicals and equipment on a frequent basis. Safety usually comes with experience but so too can complacency. It is my intention that this thread will help to educate our users and fellow refiners about what not to do in the laboratory and about how hazardous situations develop, and also some commonsense on what to do should you find yourself in a predicament.

In the scope of this thread:

  • We will discuss problems and remedies.
    We will discuss various situations and conditions to avoid.
    We will cover proper chemical technique: materials compatibility, problems in scaling up reactions, handling chemicals safety, lab hygiene.
    We will touch on waste disposal.
Basically, this will be what not to mix together, where and how to work in refining, and how to be responsible to yourself, your neighbors, and the environment. We will also touch on the basics of what to do if something does go wrong, but most our efforts are on prevention.

This will be a work in progress (I will continually update as more things come to mind) and I greatly welcome any valid contributions that members here may make. This is a serious thread about a serious issue that we all need to take note of and ensure safe refining practices. As such, posts are expected to remain on topic with information organized compactly. Thoughts and comments about this thread are welcome, but I will move them from here to a dedicated thread. I think this thread has been a long time coming. Hopefully we'll all help each other to avoid problems.



Our maxim is: Forewarned is forearmed.

Boy I am happy to be here in this forum.
 
Regarding safety of other people, Im sure nobody would advocate refining in an apartment. And some houses these days seem very close together. My question is how much room would you need to do your refining without harming people next door? An acre? Five acres? I live in a house on five acres, (330 feetX660 feet). My house/garage/workshop is centrally located on the property. Is this enough room to safely refine small batches outside without the fumes/smoke getting to the neighbors? Would I have to shut down on windy days?
 
Thanks God i found this forum,All of you nice person,I know nothing about gold refining and chemical,i only have passion to find gold and willing to learn
 
Hendryk,

Welcome to the forum!

Everything you need to know to recover and refine precious metals can be found here on the forum.

The first rule is to be safe in everything you do. Before you jump into any of the processes you see discussed here, be sure you understand the potential hazards and do everything you can to minimize the risks. It takes a lot of study but it's incredibly rewarding!

I strongly encourage all new members to follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will provide an introduction to the forum and numerous valuable links. Be sure to follow the link to his web site as he has many outstanding videos, a collection of great reference documents, and he sells a lot of the supplies needed to get started including detailed instructional DVDs.

Second, download C.M. Hoke's book, Refining Precious Metal Wastes, from my signature line. You'll see this book mentioned repeatedly here on the forum for good reason. It is probably the best book ever written for the beginner who wants to learn refining. It is written in layman's terms and will provide a solid foundation that will help you understand everything you read here on the forum.

Finally, and I can't stess this enough, read EVERYTHING in the Safety section of the forum. No amount of precious metal is worth jeopardizing your health or the health of those around you.

Once you understand the basics you can start to try some small scale experiments. If there's something you don't understand or you get stuck, there will be someone here to help you.

Best of luck,
Dave

Edited to update link to Hoke's book.
 
FrugalRefiner said:
Hendryk,

Welcome to the forum!

Everything you need to know to recover and refine precious metals can be found here on the forum.

The first rule is to be safe in everything you do. Before you jump into any of the processes you see discussed here, be sure you understand the potential hazards and do everything you can to minimize the risks. It takes a lot of study but it's incredibly rewarding!

I strongly encourage all new members to follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will provide an introduction to the forum and numerous valuable links. Be sure to follow the link to his web site as he has many outstanding videos, a collection of great reference documents, and he sells a lot of the supplies needed to get started including detailed instructional DVDs.

Second, download C.M. Hoke's book Refining Precious Metal Wastes. You'll see this book mentioned repeatedly here on the forum for good reason. It is probably the best book ever written for the beginner who wants to learn refining. It is written in layman's terms and will provide a solid foundation that will help you understand everything you read here on the forum.

Finally, and I can't stess this enough, read EVERYTHING in the Safety section of the forum. No amount of precious metal is worth jeopardizing your health or the health of those around you.

Once you understand the basics you can start to try some small scale experiments. If there's something you don't understand or you get stuck, there will be someone here to help you.

Best of luck,
Dave

Thank you for the links dude, i will follow all of this.
Im newbie here too.. ,
 
I would like to second the "keep baking soda around" tip - I can't say it has saved my life, but it has prevented more than one minor acid burn on me. And don't wait when you realize you got something on you! Not sure? BICARB! It sure beats the "okay, my flesh has started bubbling up" test. :shock:

On the flip side of that - Keep a jug of vinegar around as well. Lye causes MUCH nastier burns - Again, I've thankfully had nothing life-threatening, but because of the way it attacks flesh (saponifying your fats, basically turning YOU into soap), it can burn much deeper than acids with a small amount.

And of course, rinse water. Gallons and gallons of rinse water, or even go so far as to install an emergency shower in your work-area. Personally, I keep the hose turned on and in close reach whenever I move anything involving more than a pipette full of liquid.

Surprised no one has mentioned kitty litter yet (the cheap clay kind). It doesn't "fix" anything, but it buys you a heck of a lot longer to figure out how to properly deal with that puddle of spilled acid rapidly spreading across the floor.
 
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