joekbit said:
Thanks Harold, I use the 90% but diluted it, Example: I had 200ml H20 and added 300ml 90% sulfuric. So its' 50% +. As far as sulfuric holding gold in solution, yes I know, it will not. My way of describing it is like this. Looking at the elements we see things in a particular place by electron value. Some transition metals are or have a positive charge, some negative and some are neutral.
All metals are neutral, when a metal takes on or loses an electron it becomes an ion or part of a compound.
joekbit said:
So to me, I see an electron interaction or exchange which breaks the bond of the gold to the base metal, the gold then follows the electron flow seeking electrons to bind to. Yes or No? The reason we have lead and copper in lead acid batteries is because of the efficiency of the 2 metals to transmit electrons / share. The presence of any metal between that results in that metals electron bond being broke it then seeks a new bond.
The electron transmission that takes place is between the persulfuric acid and the gold, gold is dissolved.
The movement of the gold ions is dominated by diffusion, not electromotive forces. That is true for most electrolytic cells and the reason why larger plants uses pumps to agitate and move the electrolyte to keep fresh electrolyte close to the electrodes and minimize polarization effects.
There is no copper in lead acid batteries, it's lead, lead oxide and lead sulfate.
Ref : Wikipedia
A gold ion is just as happy as an ion (having it's own extra electrons) as it is as a metal (sharing it's electrons with it's neighbor). The driving force in chemistry and every other process is to maximize the entropy of any closed system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_free_energy#Gibbs_free_energy_of_reactions
If we want to drive a reaction towards a non spontaneous result then we need to add energy from another source, for example when we create persulfuric acid by electrolyze sulfuric acid. The persulfuric acid isn't created spontaneously but needs the extra energy to be created. The smart thing with using concentrated sulfuric acid is that base metals are passivated by the concentrated acid and not dissolved. When using diluted acid the base metals are also dissolved and weakens the acid, consuming it, while the gold takes a lot longer to dissolve.
My experience is that pure gold will dissolve or erode when used in a cell with diluted sulfuric acid, at least when the voltage is high enough.
joekbit said:
I know this is more physics and electrical than chemical and many may not understand. I may be way off base, I'm recalling my physics and metallurgy from 30 years ago. To me everything about recovery and refining involves electron bonds, break the bond however you desire or can and you have the metal in your grasp.
Yes, you are quite way off base. That's my opinion as a physicist.
Göran