Purple mud and solution

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Mountain Man

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
102
Hello everyone,

I have been putting what I learned over the last 6 months or so to work and I must thank you all again for your help. It has truly been an eye opening and confidence building epereince. It is nice to feel like I am really getting it now and it is all because of your willingness to share your time and wealth of knowledge and experience. I have been having much more success now. Thank you.

I have a question though. I have stopped using smb all together and use only copper powder. It was interesting in the beginning but now I am totally sold on it. All my solutions are now testing 0 for gold content after I recovered all the gold. It is fast, works awesome and easy to separate with nitric.

Anyway, I had something I have not seen before. When I drop the gold not always but sometimes I get a purple/brown mud. Very heavy. I let it settle and have been washing it over and over. It is removing the purple cloud but the mud still has a purple color and so far I don't seem to be getting anywhere. I do not think I am losing any of the gold mud, but there is this purple color that seems to be the actual color of the mud. It is something that just started happening recently although I do think it has shown up in the past but I did not know what to do with it so it is gone except I have 2 beakers that have a fair amount of it in each beaker.

Anyone know what it is or if it has gold mud mixed in with the purple or is it still the gold but purple?
 
I have been trying a new to me technique where I use AR to strip the gold off of gold plated fittings, pins, top plates from cpus. Basically anything gold plated. I use low dose mixture of nitric and muriatic. That way it runs out of the nitric before it dissolves all the base metals. Twice now I have ended up with a heavy mud that has purple color to it. I use pure nitric to refine it like I do the others materials I process. When I add the nitric to other batches it immediately reacts and attacks all the base metals just as I would expect. When I do the same to the purple mud it has no reaction of any kind. After rinsing the material many times it still is purple mud. Not the solution but the mud. During the rinsing process there is some purple coloration in the rinse water that looks like salts but the end result after lots of rinsing is still purple mud.

Any idea's?
 
I have two thoughts, but I don't know if either one is right.

Colloidal gold can be purple. Since it is metallic gold, nitric wouldn't react to it. AR would dissolve it.

Silver chloride can turn purple when exposed to light. It also wouldn't react to nitric. You can confirm/rule out silver chloride by exposing a small sample to strong sunlight. If it darkens/turns black it would be silver chloride.

Just guessing on both.

Dave
 
Just a suggestion why don't you make a sulfuric stripping cell for that material. Just a thought
 
The sulfuric stripping cell is how I have been doing it since I got involved with gold recovery. However, I have not had good luck with it and I don't know why. It strips fine, but when it is time to smelt it has never worked. I must be missing a step or something. I used ammonia in the past to remove base metals but it did not do very well either in removing the base metals. I think the black powder was contaminated and possibly the gold was colloidal. I was considering doing that process again but I wanted to see if I could do it with AR.

I have heard mixed expectations with the sulfuric method. Anywhere from 3 grams per pound to 3 grams per ounce. I have not had very good luck with the process but I am certain it is something I am missing in the recovery phase although I am very detail oriented and can't seem to isolate why I can't get it into gold form again. Any thoughts?
 
As far as exposing it to strong sunlight, it has actually be sitting on the window sill of my gold production out building for several days and has been exposed to strong sunlight and it has had no effect on it. It still remains purple and is a very fine mud. Much finer than the gold powder when it is ready to smelt. If it is colloidal gold what do I do with it or can it be smelted the way it is?
 
With any type of material you will certainly have different yields and especially if you are just mixing all different types of material versus what you may have read that individual could have been stripping just 1 type of material. The black slime after you are done with the batch should be separated from the sulphuric acid whether by means of letting it settle (will take a long time since sulphuric acid is viscous) or by diluting it with water and letting that settle out. Then you should refine this by AR or Hcl/Bleach and precipitate with your choice method. The precipitated powder should then be washed as per the outlined wash method on this forum (I believe Harold had a thread about this somewhere). Now if it were mine I would refine it once more but at this stage you could melt it and end up with 99.5 gold. Washing the powder is extremely important in order to obtain fine gold.
 
I probably would incinerate your powder and refine it from there. Incineration takes place with the powder being heated up to red hot but do not melt it, then let it cool back down and refine it with AR or Hcl/Bleach. You might also want to try precipitating with Smb on this refine. Anyone else agree on this course of action?
 
Hmmm - not exactly sure - but bases on your feedstock ((starting material) it sound like you are having a problem with stannic tin (not the same thing as the stannous chloride we use for testing gold in solution)

Lets see if we can solve the problem (&/or if I am right)

First - how much (gold) mud are we talking about ? --- just a couple/few grams - or 7 - 10 or more grams (doesn't need to be a "dry" weight - just a "guess" still wet - based on other drops you have done)

If its only 2 or 3 grams - re-dissolve it what AR - once re-dissolved - is the solution "a bit" cloudy &/or after letting sit for awhile for settling is there some whitish/yellowish sediment settling in the bottom of your beaker --- if its more then just a few grams - then first run this test with a few grams to see if (as I suspect) it's a stannic tin problem

Kurt
 
Sorry Guys. I have been away from my computer for a day or so.

Okay, I tried the nitric only on the purple powder and it did absolutely nothing. No reaction of any kind. I then washed the mud again and removed the nitric so I had a fresh start.

I then reintroduced it (the powder) back into a AR fresh solution. I immediately turned yellow and clear meaning no powders or anything. Just yellow. I did a Stanous test and it shows saturated with gold color. (Black and Purple in the test). I am now going to neutralize the solutions and drop with copper powder.

Does that sound like a right plan to follow?
 
Mountain Man said:
I am now going to neutralize the solutions and drop with copper powder.

Does that sound like a right plan to follow?

What do you mean by "neutralize the solutions"? There is no need to neutralize AR prior to dropping the gold.

Dave
 
I am going neutralize the solution and drop with copper powder

I hope you did not just go forward with that plan (in other words hope you are waiting for advice

First - as Dave said - "what do you mean by neutralize" ? --- please explain what/how you intend to do this

Second - are you "absolutely" sure the solution is clear

A solution can "look" clear under normal lighting

Stannic tin can be VERY ultra fine - so it may or NOT settle (meaning you may not see any of it settle) &/or it may take a day or more for "some" to settle

In other words - depending on how there is - it (some) may - or not settle --- & as well - depending on how much there may be - you may - or not see it as a cloudy solution - under normal lighting

In order to make sure the solution is truly clear you want to shine a light through the beaker from the side of the beaker - then look through the solution/beaker from the front moving your head back & forth side to side (in other words different angles) to see if it shows even a "bit" of cloudy

Stannic tin is/can be a real problem for a refiner & it only takes a VERY small amount to be a problem - & a problem that will continue to follow you when you drop your gold unless (once you determine you have it) you deal with it to get rid of it --- & its not easy - but can be done
This may - or not be a stannic tin problem - we need to figure this out because you should not be getting a "purple mud" with your gold drop - even with copper

So don't get in a hurry - lets figure this out

Kurt
 
Hello, everyone,

I apologize for not responding to your comments to help me with the problems I have been talking about. Most everything that has been discussed and suggested I have tried and nothing seems to help.

Kurt, you made some interesting comments and suggestions and first let me apologize again for not being quick to respond back. Family issues that needed attention.

Kurt, virtually everything you said was exactly what my results have been. The cloud in the rinse solutions. The gold mud, and everything else you said rings exactly spot on to what I am experiencing . I had to stop where I was to deal with some family issues and now I am ready to figure this out. I did not try to do anything more with the batches I started. 4 to be exact, all gold plated material , I removed the gold from all, all ended up with a white mud. and I mean lots of it, all with orange mud, and some with black mud and some with brown mud, some with brown and black mud together, and some with purple. I personally feel like what you are saying is exactly what I have been going thru since I started trying to strip with AR. It sounds like a witches brew. I use HCL and Nitric. I was using sodium nitrate with HCL but I got tired of trying to remove what I believed was sodium. Anyway, that is where I am today. I have 6 or seven beakers, 1000 mltrs, with all the different colors of the rainbow in them. It is quite unique. lol So, what do you think? I am tired of losing gold to this mystery.
Mountain Man,
Kirk
 
Since I have been kind of hit and miss as far as responding to all of you I apologize for that. It really has been a tornado in my life as of late, but, I have a bunch of brown mud, purple mud and black mud to work thru.

To answer the question from Kurt, "What is my feed stock, the answer is ceramic cpu's, fiber cpu's, gold plated metal that I stripped in ar solution. And I have started on the reverse electroplate items again since you told me that there is another step after it is stripped and washed. I did not know that I should be dissolving that in AR and then dropping it. Just when I think I am getting pretty good at this I find out I am no expert as of yet. Thank Goodness you all are here. If it wasn't for you all I would have thrown in the towel 4 years ago. So Thanks to you All for sharing your knowledge.

So, the purple mud is the top of the list question. As I stated earlier. My feed stock is the following.

Gold plated items, connectors, pins, ect. Stripped with AR solution, producing lots of orange mud, green mud, and some blue mud along with purple mud and brown mud after lots of washing.

Ceramic and fiber cpu's stripped in separate batches of AR producing the same colors although really no purple mud in these batches. Some but very little.

After settling the rinse water is still cloudy, not clear and is usually in the purple mud beaker but also is present in other colored mud (black, brown, orange although I believe the orange is copper.} I smelted a big batch of orange powder once and it came out as a big copper button.

Mountain Man.
Kirk
 
Hey Kurt,

I apologize. You had asked me a question about what I meant when I said neutralize. I was specifically referencing AR solution and neutralizing the nitric acid in order to drop the gold. Is that not necessary? I have always thought that the Nitric had to be neutralized before you drop the gold from an AR solution.

Thanks for your help.
Kirk
 
I have not gone forward and neutralized the AR solution. As of now I have a 2000 mil., beaker with purple coloring in the solution and lots of mud settled on the bottom. 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick on the bottom of the 2000 mil beaker.

I am very interested in knowing more about the stannic tin.
 
As far as I know there is no need to neutralize the solution.
What you need, is to remove excess oxidizer like nitric Cl and such.
Then add smb, copperas or similar to precipitate the PMs.
In ordrer to work I think these compounds need acidic environment.

If you actually neutralize you will form hydroxides of differenet flavors.
Som of which may be a pain to handle.

So please do as Dave (Frugalrefiner) said explain what you intend to do and above all when the experienced people of the forum ask you something for clarification, it may be time well spent answering this.
 
When you say no need to neutralize the AR, you are actually saying no need to neutralize both acids, muriatic and nitric. Is that what you mean? If so, I then I need to state that what I mean is to use up or neutralize the nitric only. I do not neutralize the muriatic. Only the nitric. If I do not it will just keep the gold in a dissolved state and will never drop until the nitric is neutral.

Is that what you mean? I use urea to disable the nitric and then I drop the gold with copper powder. I use to use SMB but I was always leaving gold behind. I prefer the copper powder. It works very well for me.

I took the batch that was normal after dropping and rinsing and it had a lot of brown mud in it. I had treated it already with straight nitric to remove all base metals. I then washed it over and over. It had a lot of orange mud in it with the brown and I rinsed it many times and got the orange out. I then took the remaining brown mud and I am still washing it to remove a much lighter colored cloud that is getting more and more diminished with every rinse and it is getting down to the final rinsing.

Interestingly though, the beaker (2000 ml) after the orange color was gone it has since taken on a purple color and now I am rinsing it to get down to the end result.

Yes, I have saved all the purple rinse water and yes it does have a lot of purple mud in that rinse water jar.

That is my update.
 
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