using poor mans AR

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ItsaboutROI
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using poor mans AR

Post by ItsaboutROI » October 10th, 2019, 6:31 pm

Please forgive me if the answer to this question is somewhere in the forum. If it is maybe someone can tell me where to look?
question:
Reading hoke's book we are supposed to dissolve the base metals with nitric acid. If we are using poor mans AR how do we dissolve the base metals then? Since we have no nitric acid?

Refining Rick
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by Refining Rick » October 10th, 2019, 6:44 pm

In basic terms. The nitrate you use (potassium/sodium) "creates" nitric in solution. This creates A/R and it dissolves most everything.
You can make nitric acid from your nitrate salt and sulfuric acid to use to remove base metals. Just search the forum for instructions.
"The time has come," the Walrus said,"To talk of many things. Of acids and chips and sulfamic. Of precipitants and PMGs. And why A/R is boiling hot. And whether nitric dioxide has wings."

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FrugalRefiner
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by FrugalRefiner » October 10th, 2019, 7:08 pm

ItsaboutROI wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 6:31 pm
Reading hoke's book we are supposed to dissolve the base metals with nitric acid. If we are using poor mans AR how do we dissolve the base metals then? Since we have no nitric acid?
ROI, there is a way of using poor man's AR to dissolve base metals before dissolving our values.. sort of...

To make a very simple example, let's assume we have some "stuff". If we add a bucket full of AR we'll dissolve everything and have a mess.

But if we add a little AR, we'll dissolve a bit of everything, but as the acid is consumed, any values will cement out on any remaining metallic base metals. We can decant the spent acids, now saturated with base metals, and send them through our waste treatment circuit.

Now we can add more AR, and repeat the process as needed till we reach the point when the solution tests positive for values, indicating that there are no more base metals remaining. Then dissolve what's left and proceed as usual.

Dave
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ItsaboutROI
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by ItsaboutROI » October 12th, 2019, 8:02 pm

Thank you for the responses. The forum books 1&2 say that acid peroxide will dissolve the base metals but i am not sure how well that will work with gold filled scrap. likely if its good scrap the gold layer is still covering all the base metals. FrugalRefiner, I think the method you mention in your post may work for dissolving the gold layer 1st only. However its highly likely i will still get some base metals dissolved..

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FrugalRefiner
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by FrugalRefiner » October 12th, 2019, 9:15 pm

ItsaboutROI wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 8:02 pm
FrugalRefiner, I think the method you mention in your post may work for dissolving the gold layer 1st only. However its highly likely i will still get some base metals dissolved..
You've missed the point. The purpose of the method I've described is not to "dissolve the gold layer 1st only". Some of the gold will definitely dissolve, but as the acid is exhausted, any values will cement back out of solution on the remaining base metals. We decant the solution and repeat the process a couple of times, each time dissolving some values, but each time they cement back out on the remaining base metals. At the end, our goal is to have only a small amount of base metals with our values. It takes some experience, but it's a useful technique.

Dave
Printer friendly copy of C. M. Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes.
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ItsaboutROI
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by ItsaboutROI » October 12th, 2019, 10:47 pm

FrugalRefiner wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 9:15 pm
ItsaboutROI wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 8:02 pm
FrugalRefiner, I think the method you mention in your post may work for dissolving the gold layer 1st only. However its highly likely i will still get some base metals dissolved..
You've missed the point. The purpose of the method I've described is not to "dissolve the gold layer 1st only". Some of the gold will definitely dissolve, but as the acid is exhausted, any values will cement back out of solution on the remaining base metals. We decant the solution and repeat the process a couple of times, each time dissolving some values, but each time they cement back out on the remaining base metals. At the end, our goal is to have only a small amount of base metals with our values. It takes some experience, but it's a useful technique.

Dave
OH OH OH LIGHT BULB HAS GONE ON!! CLICK THE IDEA HAS NOW MADE SENSE WOW!!! Thank you so much for taking the time and having the patience to help me understand. And just to confirm I understand it right Basically, I am dissolving the gold over and over and it's cementing back to the base metal until basically there is little to no base metal left and I can tell when I reach that point by testing the solution every time before I decant it and it should test negative each time , Then when it does finally test positive that means that so much base metal has been dissolved and decanted that there was not enough of it for the gold to cement back to you therefore some of the gold is now in solution and I have eliminated a lot of the base metals... Correct?

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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by anachronism » October 13th, 2019, 6:12 am

ItsaboutROI wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 10:47 pm

OH OH OH LIGHT BULB HAS GONE ON!! CLICK THE IDEA HAS NOW MADE SENSE WOW!!! Thank you so much for taking the time and having the patience to help me understand. And just to confirm I understand it right Basically, I am dissolving the gold over and over and it's cementing back to the base metal until basically there is little to no base metal left and I can tell when I reach that point by testing the solution every time before I decant it and it should test negative each time , Then when it does finally test positive that means that so much base metal has been dissolved and decanted that there was not enough of it for the gold to cement back to you therefore some of the gold is now in solution and I have eliminated a lot of the base metals... Correct?
Yep you nailed it :D

Jon
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FrugalRefiner
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by FrugalRefiner » October 13th, 2019, 8:28 am

Correct!

Dave
Printer friendly copy of C. M. Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes.
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by 608rogerm » October 14th, 2019, 6:40 am

Many gold filled objects have a sterling base metal.(or heavy base metal of whatever sort)
Have you thought about a sulfuric cell?

ItsaboutROI
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Re: using poor mans AR

Post by ItsaboutROI » October 14th, 2019, 11:58 pm

Yes i have used that before.. but i have powder now washed it with hcl & sulfuric and hot water.. little change

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