Smb issues after r. electroplating

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Go0N
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Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 1:55 am

hello all i know you dont know me but i have read many of your post and been here probably just as much as youtube over the last 2 years. (which is ALOT) i am very thankful this place was created and has help me more then i have room to pester you with. <3 with that being said on to the "misplaced" Gold lmao....

allright so here the deal been learning reverse electroplating straying away from nitric but i did a good 3 lb batch of gold plated pins. now after taking the sulfuric into water and neutralizing with (ALOT) of baking soda then rinsing, decanting, hcl-ing, filtering, bleach and hcl, we get to the SMB. now i think my issue is i have dropped far too much in. (super excited i was) so seems my gold will not precipitate. i haven't emptied the chloroauric but seems quite light green with very little precipitation.... quite odd seeing as i did about 200 grams of processor pins besides the other 3+ lbs of ide drive, motherboard and such gold plated pins. so out there sits my chloroauric with an odd tint of light green. i have yet to leave it over night but have an uneasy feeling something is wrong.... (done this a few times with other processes and worked beautifully)

so my questions are:

1. if i did use too much smb how do i get it to drop gold at this point?

2. is there anyway residual baking soda would screw up the process
by nuetralizing any of the other chemicals?

3. does it matter how much water you actually use?

4. and how the heck am i ever supposed to figure a guesstimate on how much gold so as to add the proper smb amount? (lmao that one tickles me)

lucky me i did short vids on it and can grab pics from that if need be. heads up though i made a boo boo as well and got rust in my rinse bucket which wasn't an issue because i still had to hcl it again anyhow
thank you all for your time, patience, and in advance for your responses. i look forward to finally being able to chit chat with some of you on this wonderful work we all share! <3

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 3:32 am

if there is anymore info you guys need let me know. checked again and still not looking good :/

Yggdrasil
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Yggdrasil » March 27th, 2020, 4:58 am

Did you test the assumed gold solution?
Do you have pictures?
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My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed :-)

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 5:48 am

still at it lmao! well what i have found out thus far is that if i did use to much smb or even chlorine to probably leave it till tomorrow and then mix 3 parts water to the solution and heat (either from sun or hotplate) this should burn off the chlorine as well as some water. when a good amount of the chlorine is burned off i let it cool and it should precipitate? question is if this is correct do i need to re-do the smb? i wouldn't think so seeing as it should tech. still be in there. i think beyond the smb i have added too much chlorine which affects the way the SMB reacts with the HCL. any guidance would be great. hoping someone finds this soon :/ lol <3

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 5:52 am

Yggdrasil wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 4:58 am
Did you test the assumed gold solution?
Do you have pictures?
i can grab a few pics right now. i know i know >.< people always say check your solutions with stennous. but believe me chief there is no way possible this load isn't packing a few grams lol. everything went according to plan till i added the bleach and smb then water. i will grab pics up and put em in right now. thank you so much for your reply. im a bit confused and would love to proceed but wont to make sure i know where my gold is at the moment lol. brb once again Thank you! <3

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 5:58 am

phone is dead at the moment charging as quick as god allows lol. furthermore its not like NO precipitation happened some has but not possible thats it. i stated earlier i had put in approx 200 g of high quality cpu pins i took off processors myself as well as 3 lbs of pins from scrap motherboards, ide drives etc. just waiting for this phone to boot to like 3% to snag a pic.

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 6:05 am

These are the pics I grabbed sorry for the bad lighting I did the best I can it's only 6am right now
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Yggdrasil
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Yggdrasil » March 27th, 2020, 6:27 am

If you mix in too much water the solution gets very dilute and the precipitate becomes very fine, practically invisible and it needs long time to settle.
It is also important that the solution suficiently acidic so the SO2 is liberated from the SMB.
The Sulfuric dioxide is what do the job.
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My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed :-)

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 6:52 am

Yggdrasil wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 6:27 am
If you mix in too much water the solution gets very dilute and the precipitate becomes very fine, practically invisible and it needs long time to settle.
It is also important that the solution suficiently acidic so the SO2 is liberated from the SMB.
The Sulfuric dioxide is what do the job.
so should i add more hcl to it?
to reactivate the smb and push out the sulfur dioxide...
i am still fairly new i have an understanding of only what i have completed unfortunatley :/
had to even look up s02 to find out what it was... if i have an understanding its the gas the chloroauric pushes out because of the bleach correct?
furthermore would it be simpler to...


A.
just leave and let it precipitate as the chlorine pushes out?
B.
add more Hcl
C.
heat off excess water at a decent point not to "Boiling" though.

and after do i have to re-drop somehow?

Once again thank you for your time on the matter i really do appreciate it! <3

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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Yggdrasil » March 27th, 2020, 7:32 am

You could add a bit of HCl to reacidify it and then wait for a significant time to see if you get a brown layer on the bottom.
I have precipitated gold, I thought, to come back to the solution a few days later and see a fine layer on the bottom of the beaker. So Time is needed, and some times significant time.

Frankly it seems quite dilute already so maybe the best thing is to put it all in a shallow vessel of some kind and cover it with a loose fabric of some kind and let most evaporate over a few months.

Or just use option C.
PS! Make sure you have a catchpan under your glassware.

The reaction for SMB is:
Na2SO3 + 2HCl → 2NaCl + SO2 + H2O
Na2S2O5 + 2 HCl → 2 NaCl + H2O + 2 SO2

So it has nothing to do with the ChloroAuric acid to do as such.

Read here to learn a few things :-)
Lazersteves reaction list :-)
Gold comes in many forms and this is just one of the nuggets in here :lol:
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3 ... 627#p10627

PS!!
Since you have already used SMB there should not be any reaction with stannous.
If there was gold in there initially, the gold should be in metal form as tiny/microscopic particles.
The stannous test should also be done in an acidic condition

Edited for wrong formula.
Last edited by Yggdrasil on March 27th, 2020, 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best Regards PoA

My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed :-)

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 7:41 am

Yggdrasil wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 7:32 am
You could add a bit of HCl to reacidify it and then wait for a significant time to see if you get a brown layer on the bottom.
I have precipitated gold, I thought, to come back to the solution a few days later and see a fine layer on the bottom of the beaker. So Time is needed, and some times significant time.

Frankly it seems quite dilute already so maybe the best thing is to put it all in a shallow vessel of some kind and cover it with a loose fabric of some kind and let most evaporate over a few months.

Or just use option C.
PS! Make sure you have a catchpan under your glassware.

The reaction for SMB is:
Na2SO3 + 2HCl → 2NaCl + SO2 + H2O

So it has nothing to do with the ChloroAuric acid to do as such.

Read here to learn a few things :-)
Lazersteves reaction list :-)
Gold comes in many forms and this is just one of the nuggets in here :lol:
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3 ... 627#p10627

PS!!
Since you have already used SMB there should not be any reaction with stannous.
If there was gold in there initially, the gold should be in metal form as tiny/microscopic particles.
Tha stannous test should also be done in an acidic condition
why sodium sulfite when i already have SMB? doesnt SMB work better anyhow by like a margin of 33% scavenging oxygen? i dont understand. and why with a cloth over for a month when i can heat and evaporate the excess water alot faster? not saying boiling because i can evaporate gold i heard that way but i heard heating works well to remove extra water. once again thank you for your help, just trying to understand better.

Yggdrasil
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Yggdrasil » March 27th, 2020, 8:19 am

My Bad.
Just picked the wrong one.
It has been corrected now.
why sodium sulfite Se edited post, I used the wrong formula when i already have SMB? doesnt SMB work better anyhow by like a margin of 33% scavenging oxygen? The point is not to scavenge oxygen but crete Sulfurdioxidei dont understand. and why with a cloth over for a month when i can heat and evaporate the excess water alot faster? I suggested this as a way to save on electric/gas, if that is of a concern, if not, just push ahead and use heat not saying boiling because i can evaporate gold i heard that way but i heard heating works well to remove extra water. once again thank you for your help, just trying to understand better.
Comments in red
Best Regards PoA

My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed :-)

Go0N
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Go0N » March 27th, 2020, 8:47 am

awesome i was sooo very confused lol. i am still not adequate enough to memorize the formulas but they are starting to sink into memory over time. so basically i heat off the chlorine and water and only hcl gold and smb will mainly stay in the solution (of course a bit of water and remnants of bleach) but it should restore the PH balance? not familiar with ph balances either :/ at this point i am guessing once it cools a bit it may precipitate gold on its own? or do i have to re-add the ratio of bleach and smb?

Yggdrasil once again cant thank you enough for your efforts and time. as well your english is not bad at all i know people in the us who are way worse in grammar. i could basically understand what you were saying and seeing how i am not as educated as many of you in this field you made it very easy to follow and keep up with you.

hopefully i can figure out the last of this today and keep the ball rolling. i will probably use a heating element on a tray of sand to heat evenly and not break my beaker lmao

Yggdrasil
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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by Yggdrasil » March 27th, 2020, 10:10 am

Just make sure it is acidic, buy some PH strips and test.
Good luck, hope you find your gold :-D
Best Regards PoA

My Primary language are not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed :-)

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Re: Smb issues after r. electroplating

Post by g_axelsson » March 28th, 2020, 7:25 am

Why haven't wee seen any stannous tests yet in this thread?

The answer of "Do I need more SMB?" is Test your solution!

Göran
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It also contains an online version of the book "Refining Precious Metal Wastes" by Hoke.

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