999.50 degrade to 995 kilo bar we are losing gold

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sasi4gold

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while we make kilo bars in 100 kg operation 30 - 40g losses particularly chemical refined gold - purity 999.50
1 ) 999.50 degrade to 995 kilo bar we are losing gold ( final product assayed again it is 995 )
2 ) Refined gold or any gold bar convert to grains no losses
gold grains which is made from refined gold convert to kilo bar
30 - 40 g losses.
please advise me accordingly. ( final product assayed again it is 995 )
Note : refined gold we will make large bar purity 999.50
refined 999.9 to 999.9 kilo bar no losses
we are using morgan crucible for all product .
Thanks
sasi
 

4metals

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Are you saying you are losing weight in pouring refined gold into bars?

Or are you retaining the same weight but the assay drops?

Are you assaying by difference and with what instrumentation?
 

sasi4gold

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4metals said:
Are you saying you are losing weight in pouring refined gold into bars?

Or are you retaining the same weight but the assay drops?

Are you assaying by difference and with what instrumentation?

Are you saying you are losing weight in pouring refined gold into bars?
NO
step one - bars to grains all the while no losses

Or are you retaining the same weight but the assay drops?
i am not getting same weight , in 100 kg
assay no drops , we are getting same assay

Are you assaying by difference and with what instrumentation?

before the process , glass dip sample
after kilo bar , drilled sample
fire assay - birmingham trained assayer

step one - large bar to covert grains no losses our gold or third party gold
" 2 ) Refined gold or any gold bar convert to grains no losses "
those grains are weighed and adding sufficient silver to degrade
999.50 to 995 , in this step we are losing gold , its happening only in our refined gold.
third party gold bars are no losses.
purity of kilo bars 995 ( if other than the gold evaporated , purity should be increase )
please advise me
Thanks
sasi
 

sasi4gold

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anachronism said:
Can you trust everyone in your organisation?
i keep fallow every individual step smelting dept. i did not fallowup where they weighing grains for kilo bar
i will fallow each step. thanks for your advise
thanks
sasi
 

sasi4gold

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4metals said:
Read this thread in the library, they were in India and had both purity issues and loss issues.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22243

If you can go into more detail about your operation we can help you as we did the folks in the linked thread.

i have read the thread the discussion about chemical refinery losses. Actually i don't have losses in refinery
3 ton / per month no issues , perfect in recovery portion. in and out very comfort. large bars no issues.
core problem is refinery bars covert to kilo bar , all furnaces same temperature same crucible same staffs
while we melts third party (client) large bar to kilo bar no issues.
Note : our refinery regular production is 999.50 - 999.70 these bars have an issues
while we produce 999.9 convert to grains are kilo bar everything perfect no issues no losses
 

sasi4gold

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4metals
hi
what is the reddish orange mark in kilo bar ? less than half square inches , when we remelt the mark disappear
i am new to smelting department. its only appear in our refined gold ( not in 999.9 kilo bars )
Thanks
sasi
 

sasi4gold

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nickvc said:
What form is the gold you are melting from the refinery for your kilo bars ?
refined powder > melt as large bar assayed 999.50 - 999.70 glass dip sample
then next step large bar to grains ( no losses )
here we will add ( 999.9) silver to degrade 995
final step grains to kilo bar
while we make grains big pcs bottom of the crucible assay ( drill )
one of the kilo bar assay ( drill ) all will get 995
thanks
sasi
 

anachronism

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I know it's the tough thing to look at but if you are losing gold AND purity at that one "step" in the process after all the checks have been done then someone is possibly stealing the gold and replacing it with another metal.
 

Shark

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Could someone be replacing the gold with silver? I would think that would be hard to detect since you are already adding silver to it.
 

sasi4gold

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anachronism said:
I know it's the tough thing to look at but if you are losing gold AND purity at that one "step" in the process after all the checks have been done then someone is possibly stealing the gold and replacing it with another metal.
while we produce 999.9 convert to grains or grains to kilo bar everything perfect no issues no losses
i thought there is scientific reason, some unknown metal evaporate , particular metal not affecting fire assay
or our refined gold stick in kilo bar crucibles
Thanks
sasi
 

sasi4gold

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Shark said:
Could someone be replacing the gold with silver? I would think that would be hard to detect since you are already adding silver to it.
yes its very hard to know. thats the reason i am asking experts
thanks
sasi
 

rickzeien

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30 to 40 grams is a lot of gold to stick to a crucible. You would be able to see it.

On your last crucible use, crush it and inspect for lost gold. If it's there you can recover.





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rickzeien

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Measure out the gold grains (be sure you know the chain of custody of the gold grains) and silver yourself. Place it in the crucible yourself. Watch the entire melt and pouring the bar.

If you have no losses from this pour then that would strongly suggest theft.

If you still have losses then the crucible or fume stack is where I would look next.

I still think 30 to 40 grams of gold is a huge amount.

I have put .603 grams of gold in a 200 grams of mixed base metal ore (no gold) plus flux and litharge to test some home made bone ash cupels.

It worked very well. Over the course of 6 trials using the same gold over and over I still had .60 grams of gold. (I was testing various weights and shapes)

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8faa2ab3207d39c997a7b6545f17f5ce.jpg
 

sasi4gold

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rickzeien said:
30 to 40 grams is a lot of gold to stick to a crucible. You would be able to see it.

On your last crucible use, crush it and inspect for lost gold. If it's there you can recover.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Thank you for valuable comment i will monitor whole process
thanks
sasi
 

nickvc

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Does the weight of refined powder match the weight of the melts as powder can produce losses if it’s not fully dry or is not rinsed properly to rid it of acids that can react and cause losses in the melting process.
 

snoman701

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What is your rinsing process? Excess chlorides can cause volatilization of gold in the melting process. When the gold is melted in a silica or fire clay dish, do you see a pronounced purple stain on the dish?


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sasi4gold

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nickvc said:
Does the weight of refined powder match the weight of the melts as powder can produce losses if it’s not fully dry or is not rinsed properly to rid it of acids that can react and cause losses in the melting process.
firstly we melt powder in to large bars in house refinery smelting room , in this section any losses it will consider as refinery losses. our issues refined bars again convert to kilo bar another department, we carefully weighed and assayed
thanks
sasi
 
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