Accidentally precipitated the gold too early

[Xydoman]

Hello members. I have a problem with my first batch. I stocked up a reasonable quantity of ram fingers, as well as plated pins, and processed them in 2 respective batches, using hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide. Following the advice of several smart folks on YouTube, I ended up with a ton of gold foils. After filtering everything quite well, I combined the foils from the 2 batches and set forth dissolving them. (It might be of importance that the concentrated foil mixture also contained pieces of green solder mask, and a few tiny capacitors that I didn't realize were in there, which in the end, came out Completely unscathed.)

My dilemma at this point isn't from combining the 2 batches or anything that might e been left in the mixture, or anything regarding the dissolving process. Although if anyone notices another problem I've likely created due to these things, I'm all ears. So, I dissolved the foils using bleach, and everything was looking exactly as it should've. I was quite excited to see the deep, golden color of my gold in solution. A stannous chloride test gave me an instant dark brown stain and I was elated. At this point, I received a service call. I'm a service tech for a boiler company and emergency service is our bread and butter. A bit annoyed, I left my solution on the table, covered it up, and went and knocked out the call. I was gone for about 4 hours. The whole time, the excitement of my first gold drop was almost too much to bear. It was all I could think about.

The moment I returned home, I went out to my "lab" and proceeded to drop the gold with smb. (Noteworthy : the smb had clumped up in the container quite seriously. I guess I had inadvertently left the lid off a few days ago when I was messing around out there. It took alot of convincing to get enough usable powder, and I actually had to use a blender to get it chopped up fine enough to use. Even still, there were plenty of small clumps that I ended up needing to use.) After what seemed to ME, an amature, to be too much smb, I finally got that I color change and witnessed this "heavy mud" fall to the bottom of the beaker, and I was so excited.

So far so good?? I noticed I had all kinds of stuff floating around in the solution, including some clumps of smb that hadn't dissolved. Then it hit me... I facepalmed so hard that I nearly knocked myself out... I was so excited to precipitate the gold, that I rushed home and performed the procedure.... WITHOUT FILTERING THE GOLD IN SOLUTION... Geez... How absent minded can one be?? So I feel like an idiot.. Furthermore.. I decided to smdo another stannous test on it, and the dark brown stain instantly appeared, indicating that there was still plenty of gold in solution...

So that's my dilemma.. I'm not going to touch it until I get some good advice on how to proceed, because before I ever got started with any of this.. When it was only an idea, I did a ton of research, and probably the most important thing I took from all of the preliminary reading, was that it's not a good idea to make assumptions or do anything that you're not absolutely positive about the expected result or reaction, when it comes to chemistry. I kind of like my family and neighbors and I don't want to be known in my neighborhood as that troublemaker who poisoned the block with mustard gas.

So u just need to know 1) can I disolve it again, given the abundance of smb? 2) do I filter this solution since there's still gold in it, and then process the muddy mixture somehow? How would the pros fix this careless mistake perpetrated by an excited amature, who really actually DID do his homework, yet still goofed in such a way.

Thank all of you for your advice. I understand that some admonishing is likely well on the way, but I can take a good butt chewing. So please help.

 

[lanfear]

You seem to have a good grasp of the process. This is not a problem at all. In fact you want to refine your gold twice anyway. Add more distlled water to get the smb out off the way. Heating will also help with this.

When this is done, decant your solution and begin the washing stage. Just search this forum for this. Alot of posts about it.
Then you can dissolve your gold again for extra purity. I would recomend ice cubes in the solution before filtrering. This will push out AgCl. A dash of H2SO4 cant hurt either. This will take out lead as insoluble lead Sulfide. Before filtrering, mind you.

Jon

 

[lanfear]

A small note on my previous post. You got a positive stannous test on the solution. This is likekely a false positive, witch occurs when you use too much smb. Something you clearly did?

Get the rest of the smb salt dissolved. Decant the solution and save it if you want. Then you are safe. You can put copper in it and see if there is any more values. Personally I would put it in my stock pot. In there I have copper and if I missed anything precious it will settle there. Search the forum to learn what "the stock pot" is.

Jon

 

[FrugalRefiner]

A small note on my previous post. You got a positive stannous test on the solution. This is likekely a false positive, witch occurs when you use too much smb. Something you clearly did?

Yep. Gold is purple to black. Copper is brown.

Get the rest of the smb salt dissolved. Decant the solution and save it if you want. Then you are safe. You can put copper in it and see if there is any more values. Personally I would put it in my stock pot. In there I have copper and if I missed anything precious it will settle there. Search the forum to learn what "the stock pot" is.

Yep.

Dave

 

[Xydoman]

Awesome! Thanks guys. I'll be heeding these words tonight.

 

[1mysurveymail]

"I left my solution on the table, covered it up, and went and knocked out the call. I was gone for about 4 hours. The whole time, the excitement of my first gold drop was almost too much to bear. It was all I could think about."

Always filter after dissolving with HCl and Bleach. It gives you the excuse to spray your filter setup with water to dilute it somewhat. That is not your main problem at this juncture. You will need to use HCl and bleach again anyway, for a second refine, so don't beat yourself up too badly.

The FIRST missed step, or actual ROOT of the initial problem:

"So how did you drive off the excess chlorine from the HCl + bleach?"

Seems that you did not.

A wise escrap guy once told me he always keeps an extra helping of foils (covered in water). Then after he uses the HCl and bleach method he adds some of these "extra" foils to ensure the bleach=chlorine is all used up. Here in sunny FL, I cover the Auric acid and leave it out in the sun, or use gentle heat (watchglass covering my "beaker" and drive off the excess chlorine). A frugal refiner is a great goal to aim for, not using too much SMB to overcome too much bleach still active in your auric acid. Right now I have a pretty pregnant golden solution with an EXTRA pinch of gold foils in it, noticeably getting eaten by the excess chlorine. Later this week I will put it out in the sun, and heat it gently. THEN I will precipitate out the gold with as little SMB as possible. Take this time to make a test solution of "stannous." Snip a few inches of some lead free solder into a small (100ml?) glass bottle with HCl. Then you can test after your drop. Then just for S's and giggles, put a chink of copper in and see if black (gold) cements on. I am repeating myself, time to go to bed.

I hope this helps. We have all been there, some of us just admit it.

BTW, Too much SMB will drop everything out of your solution, including copper. Don't mix ram foils and board fingers. All that glitters is not all created equal. Tin and pins, and contaminants are best done separately/ At least that is what HOKE wrote in her chapter on recovering Escrap. I jest. She never saw anything more convoluted than an abacus, let alone a hodgepodge of Escrap. I wish I knew a Jeweler that would just give me "bench sweeps" to refine. Not to knock her. She knew how to get lead out, not breathe the mercury, and get the PGM's into her dowry.

Even though you jumped the gun, a bit. That is why a second refine, and washes are critical. Saving your "spent" solutions, and using a chunk of copper taught me how much gold gets left behind (cements onto the copper) when the gold fever makes me forget steps.

The best advice is to print out "Hoke" (read it, and ask her spirit what a computer is composed of) and maybe put it under your pillow, osmosis might work. People chipping in without PONTIFICATING is even better.

I never give people a book on how to fish, I actually teach them how to fish. I don't give "handouts" I freely offer a "hand up."

Always check for battery voltage, spark, timing, fuel pressure, and those 100 year old cars will start every time. Don't ask me how to get a Prius running, ask HRM Hoke?

 

[Xydoman]

Thanks guys! We saved this batch! I decanted the liquid as advised and washed with distilled water several times. I then redisolved with a fresh solution of hcl and bleach. (I was able to use much less this time, and was able to have it in a smaller container) I tested the solution the next morning, and there was my beautiful yellow liquid, nice and pregnant. I then added much less and, watched as the yellow color cleared up, and little specs of whst looked like dirt started mucking up the clarity. I returned after work, and right in the center, was a nice little pile of gold powder. First time I've witnessed it it it's glory and I must say, there's no mistaking it. It's gorgeous! I picked it up and rolled the beaker and watched as the powder flowed over itself in swirls. I must've did that over and over for an hour lol. I then performed the decanting and washing procedures again, then put it on my hot plate to evaporate the remaining water.

I then looked in the bucket that I had decanted the liquid in following you're advice. Lo and behold, I saw the same unmistakable pile at tgd bottom of that one as well. The poke was just as big. So I actually filtered this, and then washed it a few times, then added it to the beaker on the hot plate, doubling the yield. The next day, I turned off the hot plate when the water was gone, and a moist layer of gold powder remained on the bottom. Someone told me it would look like dried cinnamon.. And that is a great description of what I have in the glass.

So the plan is to not melt it just yet, but save it in a tiny glass bottle, that i will add the yields from subsequent batches to, and then melt down when I'm finished processing all of my material (which started out as literally a full truck load of old laptops, printers, lcd monitors, a few cell phones and other various gold bearing boards) originally my plan was to just process the stuff and be done with it, but I've sparked an interest, and now have friends and family, as well as colleagues bringing me what ever they migyt have for me. The other day a buddy brought me 4 IBM motherboards, still in the wrappers. I pulled them out, and the typing and qa stickers were all dated from '89 being the oldest and' 92 being the newest. These were gems. Were. Lol. I was told I should've sold them, but to that I say... I work for a paycheck, thus is now my hobby. I do it ecause I love seeing the swirling powder at the end. Not for money.

So I've started the next batch and got just as far but with a different problem this time. I'm gonna start another thread for it, as this post ( which was intended to be a thank you post) is getting a bit long due yo my excitement lol. Now for the thanks,

You guys are perfect strangers, but there's no way I would've had this first success without yall. I appreciate it. I really do. I hope you see my next question, cuz it's just as perplexing, but I'm sure you guys will be able to guide me properly. Mysurveymail asks about driving off the bleach.. but I... Guess....?? it wasn't an issue in this case...?? (I guess it could be if done was left behind) But after a little research, I have a feeling that it could have a TON to do with the problem In this next batch.

 

[lanfear]

Sound like you are well hooked sir. But I promise you the first button you melt will be Even more satisfying. Just be aware the if you brake your botlle of gold powder it is hard to get back. I speak from excperience. A gold button on the other hand..
Yes, some of the powder will normaly go over with the decanting and washings. Not if its really pure and clumped up. This is were the stock pot comes in. Save everything in the stock pot, and in a year or two when you process whats in there you can get a Nice surprises.

Jon