Anybody know what this might be?

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twangin4u

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
18
I had some ore which I thought may contain some silver. So I smelled it with flux in graphite crucible with lead collector. Then cupelled the lead. I split the lead in half and one half produced a small button of silver and the other looks like this... wtf?
Anyone know what this is?
 

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Apologies..

The pictures above came from this stuff. It was in a coffee can that my grandpa had saved... he saved it for a reason I'm sure. It had a little silver in it. I'm Just curious what it is
 

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I suspected. Thank u. What are the rootbeer brown hair like crystals? Is that glass? It's weird it was in the lead and on bottom of everything
 
The one small smelt I did with this stuff gave me this...
Looks to be mostly silver.. with maybe a little gold in it
 

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twangin4u said:
Apologies..

The pictures above came from this stuff. It was in a coffee can that my grandpa had saved... he saved it for a reason I'm sure. It had a little silver in it. I'm Just curious what it is

Although I could certainly be wrong - the pics of the ore in that post look an awful lot like "cinnabar" to me

Cinnabar is the ore that contains mercury & mined for the mercury in it

:arrow: Cinnabar - Wikipedia

Like any ore - cinnabar can contain other metals other then the "target" metal the ore is being mined for (the target metal in the case of cinnabar being mercury) the other metals in the ore are therefor "by products" of the target metal

Therefore - cinnabar can contain gold &/or silver (as well as other metals)

Here is an article about silver

:arrow: Silver: A native element, mineral, alloy, and byproduct.

About half way down on that article it says ---------

Silver also forms a natural alloy with mercury. This silver amalgam is sometimes found in the oxidation zones of silver deposits and is occasionally associated with cinnabar.

Here is an article about mercury being a by product of gold mining

:arrow: https://archive.epa.gov/epawaste/nonhaz/industrial/special/web/pdf/id4-merc.pdf

Again - in this article it talks about cinnabar ------------

Recovering mercury from gold ore is shown in Exhibit 3, and is similar to recovery from cinnabar ore. If the
gold ore is a sulfide ore, it is typically sent to a roasting step prior to leaching. This roasting operation is similar to primary mercury ore roasting, in that the mercury and sulfide are both volatilized.

The point I am making is that IF (the BIG IF) that ore is cinnabar (which it looks like to me) --- when you did your smelt on that ore it would have vaporized the mercury which you likely then breathed in --- then IF (the BIG IF again) there was also silver (&/or gold) in the cinnabar the lead in the smelt would have collected that - which would result in the button in your cupel

Therefor - because you smelted that ore - you should get tested for mercury in your body as a result of "possibly" breathing mercury vapor during the smelting

Also - if you still have more of that ore - before smelting more of it - I would put some of it in a retort & retort it to see if it produces mercury

For what it is worth - I spent 2 years living on 500 acers in Guerneville California (I was there to log red wood) that was one of the largest cinnabar mines the the U.S. --- The floor of the old retort/furnace room was literally covered with mercury- you could scoop up the inch thick layer of dirt off the floor - pan the dirt off & end up with a "large" bead of mercury in you pan

Kurt
 
My apologies for not noticing this thread earlier. I wholeheartedly concur with Kurt on this. What you have appears to be cinnabar. I have some in my mineral samples collected during many excursions to the outback of Nevada. Some samples also text positive for silver, gold, or both, along with a host of other metals that naturally deposit with cinnabar.

Due to the very real potential of permanent organ damage, appropriate precautions should be taken to ensure personal and environmental safety.

Time for more coffee.
 
I thought it looked like cinnabar as well... from what I researched. I stayed back while it was in furnace... but im gonna take your advice and see if any collects in condensing it
Thank u
 
The ore you are dealing with is cinnabar which as pointed out is mercury

As also pointed out cinnabar can also have silver in it & maybe even a "little" gold

Because you are trying to process this in a smelting process you are creating VERY TOXIC mercury vapors

It (the mercury) is also likely what is causing you flux/slag to end up like tar as well as the crystals you are seeing in your cupels --- so the slag & cupels are also ending up with TOXIC mercury compounds in them

In other words --- at every step in the process of trying to process this ore --- YOU ARE EXPOSING YOURSELF TO TOXIC MERCURY --- starting with crushing the ore to every step after

In My Opinion - what you are doing here in trying to recover the LITTLE BIT of silver in the ore is NOT worth exposing yourself to the TOXIC mercury

If I were you - I would go see a doctor & get tested for mercury poisoning --- AND --- STOP what you are doing with this ore

It is NOT worth the LITTLE BIT of silver you are going to get from it

Playing with mercury (especially the way you are going about it) is a FOOLS game

Kurt
 
Should I crush it and roast it before smelting?
If I had any concern about mercury in my sample, i will get it properly analysed. If present in substantial quantity, XRF on geochem mode will certainly catch it, but i will not use this as a proof to continue smelting, if nothing appears in XRF reading.
Mercury is very nasty element, because it is harmful in nearly every form and compound. It is accumulated in body tissues, so also trace ammounts of it could collect in your body over time and effects will show up after months/years. Not mentioning that some extremophiles bacteria could metabolize metallic mercury to the one of the most toxic and persistent compounds ever known - methylmercury. Minute ammounts, but still big issue over time in the enviroment.
Also, when somwhere and recognized, it just simply cannot be "destroyed", you could just contain it somewhere, but it will happily sit for centuries and centuries, still having same bad effects. Mercury sulfide is one of the most stable and least toxic forms of mercury, yet still nowhere safe to process or crush/handle. Also keep it in good distance from acids.
Commonly when aqueous mercury waste is identified, it is treated with sulfide or hydrogen sulfide gas to create precipitate of very insoluble HgS. Scavenging it to the precipitate, which is then more conveniently handled.
Same problem arises from other heavy metals such as cadmium and thallium.

If it is true that what you smelted contained mercury, every bit of slag and dust after crushing should be properly contained and disposed (responsibly) from your property. Metal amalgams are generally relatively safe, but i wont play with them if precise composition is not known.

Stay safe.
 
Just a quick note to say that you should have a hood and scrubber/condenser on your furnace. Doing this outdoors only contaminates the neighborhood and gives mining a huge black eye. Mercury in background levels is present to some degree, in all ores.
 
Not saying that it is, but please note that Nevada rocks can have asbestos in them.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4QFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Jdw7xttCABxD41zZCxepz
Be carefull with processing ore.

Martijn.

Interesting reading Martijn

I remember many years ago when I was working on a logging road building job where we exposed what was very clearly a seam of asbestos - the boss had us pile a bunch of brush on top of it so the forest service road inspector wouldn't see it & shut the job down - I remember everyone on the crew laughing when I made the comment - "oh no - we are all going to die now"

Kurt
 
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