AP, HCl/Cl and NO2 Fumes

[JGEOD]

First off i would like to thank all of the contributors on this forum. I have been reading and searching for many hours over the past months and thought i was ready to for my first test batch of gold fingers. Now I am second guessing and could use some direction.

I started my AP solution in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket, strainer bucket, 6 cups of HCl and 2 cups H2O2 (added 1 more cup later on). Oh, and a pound of scrap. Some fingers, some fiber board CPu's, 2 ceramic CPU's. ( I had to see what the AP solution would do for myself)

I have 3 of LazerSteve's DVD's (AP for Gold Fingers, Gold Scrap, and Platinum Recovery). If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is a step by step video worth? I think $25. :lol:

The fumes that come off the AP mixture are what? I have seen O2, CL and possible HCl. There was a fair amount of it. Far downwind it did smell like chlorine. From what i know, in the open there isn't a whole lot of danger from the chlorine in the open. It would only be dangerous in concentrated levels in a low depression in the ground like a trench. I would think that as long as you don't stick your nose in the bucket, the HCl would not be any more harmful than the fumes that come from the bottle poured it from. ( Is this reasonable?)

How far of an area should i keep gated off from pets? Downwind distance area I guess.

I don't want to assume.

When I move to the HCl/Cl, what kind of fumes will be observed coming off the bucket? I would think that they are Cl and possible the HCl? I have seen this done outside, but it needs to sit for sometime in a tub. What kind of distances should there be before these fumes are no more noticeable than the fumes from adding Chlorine to a swimming pool?

Sooner or later I would use AR for the ceramic CPU's or other refining materials. There is the issue of the NO2 fumes. I have seen these swarming about in a glass receptacle outdoors. Would this small amount of fumes dissipate quickly enough are arms reach to not be a health hazard?

I do not have a fume hood outdoors and my thoughts were to check the wind direction, blow a fan for extra precautions, and let the fumes travel. After reading hear in the safety section, I again wonder, how far away, will these NO2 fumes be a health hazard? I have neighbors.

A fume hood will most likely be in the making. I can vent this up and away but yet again, if this NO2 falls back down due to not checking the atmospheric conditions, will there be heath associated risks?

I am looking at only doing about 600 grams of gold scrap at a time and maybe 2.5 lbs of catalytic converter material at a time.

Thank you all that can add advise after taking a look at this. This is my VERY FIRST post so I apologize for it being so long winded.

 

[MysticColby]

I can give some basic info on NO2 but not the rest (from msds):
you can smell it above 0.11 ppm, noticeably above 1 ppm
irreversible or other serious effects which could impair an individual's ability to take protective action: 15 ppm
life-threatening health effects at 30 ppm

That's some fun info about it. Now for some stuff I've noticed:
If the air is red, it is VERY concentrated
you can smell it even if you can't see it (dissipated enough so it's not visibly red)
If you're upwind (of a fan / weather), you can't smell it (unless wind changes direction). If you can't smell it, it's below 1 ppm, and not likely to cause damage. It can still cause damage from chronic exposure, so limit yourself anyways (be nearby sparingly)

It's also dangerous to your health to expose yourself to it besides inhalation, but inhalation is it's main route of entry into you.
I seem to recall that exposure can decrease your sense of smell, but I can't find that info right now, so I could be mistaken.

 

[kuma]

Hi JGEOD , welcome to the forum!
Both the AP and Hcl/Cl processes will liberate Chlorine gas , which can be very nasty stuff.
Check out the MSDS' for Chlorine Gas and Nitric Oxide ,

Chlorine Gas MSDS ; http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12647

Nitrogen Oxides ( NO /NO2 ) ; http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=763

All the best with it and stay safe ,
Chris

 

[JGEOD]

Thank you for the advice and MSDS. The chlorine dissipates pretty good. The fan is a good back-up incase the wind tries to play games with direction.

The fingers seem to be stripping nicely. There is a good amount of foils in the solution. I put a piece of litmus paper in the bottom of the secondary container and it has a red color to it. Safe to say that the build up of fumes contains HCl as anticipated.

The ceramics have not broken down like I thought they might. I might need to try something else. That was why I wanted more information on the NOx.

I hope others have some information to share about their experiences with NOx fumes and the downwind dissipation distances they observe. I look forward to hearing all about it.

In order to keep this topic in line with the Safety label, I will post in the process section about the plans to take care of the ceramic CPUs.

UPDATE- here is the process question I posted http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12649

 

[kuma]

Hello chief!
How are tricks? I hope your well!

Oh, and a pound of scrap. Some fingers, some fiber board CPu's, 2 ceramic CPU's. ( I had to see what the AP solution would do for myself)

Firstly , and this is just a pointer , from what I know it's a good idea to seperate your materials for processing into seperate groups , such as fingers with fingers and fiber cpu's with fiber cpu's.
The logic behind this is that if one type of material gives you unexpected troubles ( tin , for example ) , it wont affect you other materials , saving you from a bigger mess and potential losses to have to deal with down the line.
Processing your differnt materials seperatly will also give you some yield data per type of materials processed.

The ceramics have not broken down like I thought they might. I might need to try something else. That was why I wanted more information on the NOx.

With regards to ceramic cpu's , AP won't digest ceramic.
The gold plated pins and lids ( tops ) on these will eventualy digest in AP leaving the ceramic and gold foils behind behind , or these can be mechanically removed from the cpu beforehand and processed either in AP , nitric , or a sulfuric stripping cell seperatly.
The leftover ceramic parts can be crushed and finely ground and then leached with the agent of your choice to extract any possible PM's present.
It's all here chief , just have a read about and use the old search function and you'll likely find what you need , 8)
Wishing you all the very best with it and sending my kind regards ,
Chris