AR did not fully do the job, help pls :)

[koebeef]

Hi guys,

My second batch of AR did not fully de-pin my ceramic cpus. What is my best move to do.

1. Add more AR to the pot
2. Filter off the liquid, and add the remaining cpus to a new batch of AR
3. Other??

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[leavemealone]

Hey ryan,
That is usually a result from 1 of 2 things,either your nitric has been dissipated(used up) or your AR is saturated.Both are easy fixes,add a little muratic and give it about an hour and see if you have anymore going into solution.If not then add some more nitric.You will not need to compensate for the added muratic as long as you don't add too much muratic.The idea is to find out if you need more strength to dissolve the metals,or space for the metals to dissolve into.
One side note,If it is strength(nitric) you are needing,keep it as little as possible and that will help when you neutralize it later.
Johnny

 

[LeftyTheBandit]

I would not use AR=Aqua Regia to do CPU's

Use AP=Acid Peroxide

AP attacks the copper and turns it into a salt that dissolves in liquid. That leaves gold and ceramics in your filtered material. Then attack your gold and ceramic filtered media with Muriatic acid and Bleach (HCl/Cl) to turn the gold into a gold salt that dissolves into the liquid then filter again leaving just the ceramics in your filtered material. Now your left with a yellow liquid that is your gold with most of the cheap metal removed.

Removing base metals (Cheap metals) before you dissolve the gold is the only way to go. If you use AR you mix the good stuff with the bad stuff then you need to treat it again to get the bad stuff out, but now that its been dissolved together it never really gives you a chance to make a quality separation, short of melting it all together and starting from scratch.

Every time you dissolve gold powder it gets smaller and smaller in particle size making it harder to separate from cheap metals due to what they call drag down. Smaller particles fall slower and drag down other particles with it.

DO NOT USE AR on CPU's it may be a little faster but your gold will be lower quality.

 

[AurumShine]

hello koebeef my process is that for cpu first i use sulfuric cell to removing gold from gold plated legs then i use metal grander who is used to cutting the steel pipe i cut the steel legs then i put this processor on infrared electric heater when processor burn then i crushed with mortal and postal then it convert into white and black powder then i put this powder in beaker and put HCL to removing base metals then i use aqua regia to recover gold . :idea:

 

[leavemealone]

Koe
You can use AR on cpu's,theres nothing wrong with that at all.Just keep to what I told you and you'll be fine.Have you read hokes book?She talks alot about the advantages of AR.
Johnny

 

[nicknitro]

Johnny,

Why don't you explain why AR would be an acceptable process for CPU's, since so many post tell other's not to. Maybe this is a lost debate, but I too have been told not to processe CPU's with AR. Please remember there are many types of CPU's. Is Steel an issue, in drag down? Copper?, no
I guess not too much. What is your process in full?

Thanks,
Nick

 

[Harold_V]

The idea is real simple. If ANY material that is to be processed has base metal that can be removed, it should be before processing the values. The exception to that is if the values can be stripped by some means instead of dissolving the base metals.

If readers think that dissolving everything in AR is a great idea, why the hell is it that they are constantly asking questions on how to get bailed out when something goes south on them? It's not a good idea, and it's never going to be a good idea, with few exceptions.

By now, I'd think they'd have a clue that what they're doing isn't the smartest thing they can think of----but that apparently is not the case.

It makes helping people damned hard when piss poor processes are promoted and endorsed. I've found that readers want to argue about the AR process instead of learn from those that have seen refining from a different perspective, and understand the ramifications of using poor procedures. Sort of makes me wonder why I spend time here. I feel I am truly spinning my wheels, going nowhere.

Harold

 

[glorycloud]

Harold,

I am processing some very old chips in nitric that are surely from the late 70's
or early 80's at the latest. I am using cold nitric to remove the base metals.
I used a heat gun to get the chips off of the old green boards. Most times
when I have used nitric on gold bearing escrap the solution turns some shade of
blue but this batch is this wild orange color. I wonder if the legs on these chips
is a different metal or something else inside the chips is different than the
newer stuff.

I know you don't have much experience with escrap but I wondered if you had
any thoughts about my brilliant hues? 8)

Thanks for your help!

 

[Harold_V]

Glorycloud---
Have you tested for palladium? Either with stannous chloride or DMG---each will be quite conclusive. It's not that I expect that's what it is, but it's an easy and fast test, and would eliminate or confirm the possibility.

Iron is a distinct possibility--although I rarely encountered much of the stuff. Seems to me GSP has discussed an iron based alloy that is commonly used for such components. As you alluded, I have no experience with e scrap aside from the odd connector or a few pins. Fact is, I have learned a great deal from reading of the exploits of the board members where that's concerned.

There is an excellent test for iron in solution, if only I could remember what it is. I believe it can be found in Hoke's book, but I'm not sure. I had prepared the solution and kept it on hand for that odd case where I had something in solution that I could not identify. It's a nice addition to one's arsenal of testing supplies. I'm going to trust to memory and say that when iron is present, the resulting indicator is Prussian blue. Very distinctive, not to be confused with other indicators. Please remember, I've been away from refining for more than 15 years now. Much has grown dim in my memory.

Harold

Edit: Please read down to the post by Lou for the proper testing solution and color reaction. I was wrong with the Prussian blue I mentioned.

 

[yvonbug]

Aha! Lovely color choice, that Prussian blue! Harold, your not spinning your wheels, believe me, some of us look on you as their mentor. You have helped me in so many ways. Remember I was/have been cleaning up my old stuff? I was still haveing problems with that Prussian blue stuff. I thought perhaps I was dealing with excessive amounts of silver, but now that you've mentioned this right on color, I see what I am really dealing with. In the past I never took a magnet to my stuff, (all my little vials of brown powders from nitric digesting). But lately, while doing my clean-up, I have, and a lot of them were magnetic! (boo hoo). So they are on hold again till I find out what dissolves iron readily. Anyways, Please don't think you are wasting your time on this forum. The newbies need you, and us folks that have been doing this as a hobby for a while still learn a whole lot from you! You've been smoothing out all the little bumps in my road for a long time now. I love you! (see, I still have my crush on you!)
As too the chap with the AR problem, why didn't he do a nitric digest first? Crush up those puppies and digest with nitric all the base metals. And then do whatever it is that digests the iron ( I would like to know that too). THEN do the AR. Like Harold always says, "Garbage in, garbage out" -Yvonne-

 

[LeftyTheBandit]

Most times when I have used nitric on gold bearing escrap the solution turns some shade of
blue but this batch is this wild orange color. I wonder if the legs on these chips
is a different metal or something else inside the chips is different than the
newer stuff.

I have just had this same reaction on a lot of pins. Although I did not use Nitric, I used HCl the color orange was apparent. It appears there is a base metal that will give a false orange indicating a high yield solution.

Harold: You help the novice and the practitioner refiners. I don't know how you have the energy to answer the same questions over and over. Every time you answer one of my posts I feel honored.

 

[lazersteve]

Iron will form an orange color with HCl.

Steve

 

[Lou]

Harold, Prussian blue is Fe7(CN)18.

It is not stable in acidic conditions, so the thiocyanate test is better (gives a blood red color indicative of iron, this complex is pentaaqua(thiocyanato-N)iron(III)).

 

[Harold_V]

Harold, Prussian blue is Fe7(CN)18.

It is not stable in acidic conditions, so the thiocyanate test is better (gives a blood red color indicative of iron, this complex is pentaaqua(thiocyanato-N)iron(III)).

Sigh!

Yep, that's what the solution did that I used to use. It had been so long since I used it I had forgotten the reaction, but had replaced it in my mind with the Prussian blue-----which is now puzzling the hell out of me, because I recall a test the yielded that, too. Now to figure out where that one came from. Any suggestions?

Thanks, Lou. It's good that someone is keeping watch on my decaying mind.

I'll go to my previous post and make a notation that I was wrong, so readers will make reference to your post.

Harold

 

[arthur kierski]

potassium ferro cianide(k4(fecn)6 precipitates iron as a blue precipitate (prussian blue)---it is not selective and if the solution have other base metals it will precipitate them also--i use it to eliminate base metals from contaminated rh plating baths----

 

[glorycloud]

The orange colored material did filter out of the solution leaving an emerald green colored solution behind.
All the legs are gone off of these old IC chips and all I see is the nice gold peeking out at me from
inside the windows or pieces of these chips. 8)

 

[Harold_V]

potassium ferro cianide(k4(fecn)6 precipitates iron as a blue precipitate (prussian blue)

Thanks, Arthur. I knew it was something I had experienced.

Harold

 

[nicknitro]

Harold,

Good Day Sir.

Just wanted to clarify Harold, I was not trying to to promote the use of AR on these types of materials. LOL

I just wanted to give Johnny a chance to explain what he was trying to do.

I know this was posted a while back, sorry, I haven't had much time on-line lately.


Thanks Harold,
and no you aren't spinning your wheels. Only fools would take your advice with a grain of salt, and if so, they would be like Darwins theory of evolution. Only the strong survive, especially in today's competitive times.


Glad to be Home,
Nick