rickbb
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I use bleach now instead of nitric or even poor man's nitric, it does to seem to take more time, but its benefits, (not nitric, cheaper), outweigh that for me. I have more time than anything else.
Bag of Fingers
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scrapparts
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I use any and all of these when I have them available.floppy said:
Nitric Acid
Peroxide
Bleach.
The bleach and peroxide are great for gold foils. When using peroxide, you have to be very careful because more than 1 cap-full per gallon of solution tends to dissolve the foils. To prevent that, just add at least half the solution amount of distilled water.
The reason I add water to my solution is that if I'm going to let it sit without bothering it for days, weeks or longer, the water would need to evaporate before the solution is concentrated enough to dissolve the foils. Straight solution requires you to monitor it because it WILL eventually dissolve some of the foils if left in solution too long, no matter if you make the recipe by instructions.
I had gold foils to disappear on me after days of sitting in solution, probably because I put too much peroxide in the solution. It may not seem like much, but any amount more than a cap-full per gallon of solution will dissolve the foils.
Now, on the other hand, if you want to remove the foils from the boards first, you can use:
HCL+bleach
HCL+peroxide
HCL+Nitric
either of the above will work, with the addition of distilled water to dilute the solution. When you dilute the solution, all of the water you added would need to be evaporated before the foils start to dissolve, but in the meantime, all of your foils will fall off the boards without any questions.
If you want to see the foils come off in a few hours at most, put them in a beaker and get the solution to a boiling point. Just remember where your starting solution is at BEFORE you add the distilled water. As long as the water level doesn't get to where the solution level is at, the foils will fly around in the solution. It's a beautiful sight.
scrapparts
scrapparts
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I don't use any stones because I assume they wouldn't last long, and reading from you that they deteriorated on you, confirms my beliefs.floppy said:
I use a half inch (I think) PVC tubing attached to the inside of the bucket, and then stick my hose through the PVC going all the way out the other end of the PVC. It provides bubbles/air very well. I'll post some pictures and information on how anyone can make their own bubbler(s) that won't fail on you.
For the sake of using acids and recovering of precious metals, I do not put anything in my solution for air/agitation.. except the air hose. PVC and air tubing will outlast probably anything else you put in your solutions to help with air/bubbling action.
I got really creative over the past 2 months with all the 5-gallon buckets, 2-gallon buckets and other containers to use and save money on beakers, containers, filtration. You probably have access to a lot of these items I'll show as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer this week.
scrapparts
Shark said:
I had never even thought of a bucket warmer, i would like to give one a whirl, but when I googled them up I found they’re kinda pricey. I’m gonna look and ask around to see if I can find one second hand. Thanks for the advice!
as an alternative you may want to look at plumbing pipe heat tape, heat wire, or thermostatic controlled pipe heating strips, these are more common and available as well as they can be cheaper than the blanket type, or bucket type blanket heaters.
If using strip or resistance wire to make a bucket heater, you may need to look into distributing the heat better or more evenly across the surface of the bucket with something like metal or put the wire into a blanket material (or just get creative with the resistance wire)...
Another option you may consider is submersible water heaters, cattle horse trough tank heaters. heat water to have your bucket sitting in (double boiler type setup)...
Plywood cabinet insulated, with a heat lamp (hot box to keep bugs and the cats and squirrels out in the cold).
Where there is a will or purpose, and ideas, then you can find the way.
If using strip or resistance wire to make a bucket heater, you may need to look into distributing the heat better or more evenly across the surface of the bucket with something like metal or put the wire into a blanket material (or just get creative with the resistance wire)...
Another option you may consider is submersible water heaters, cattle horse trough tank heaters. heat water to have your bucket sitting in (double boiler type setup)...
Plywood cabinet insulated, with a heat lamp (hot box to keep bugs and the cats and squirrels out in the cold).
Where there is a will or purpose, and ideas, then you can find the way.
scrapparts
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butcher said:
butcher, that is so creative. Some of the ideas started popping in my head. I am getting my setups together piece by piece, due to the weather, but I have so many buckets, containers and the like that I've accumulated over the last 3 years. I've made some straining/filtering buckets that already save me countless hours filtering.
You also gave me the idea of adding heat to different setups that will work. Thanks again for your great knowledge. It reminds me to get creative.
scrapparts
So we have gotten a little reprieve from the polar vortex that’s been plaguing us for a couple of weeks so I decided to start the process of defoiling the 20 pounds of fingers I have compiled. I am posting a couple of pics of my setup below. I am using a dual output bubbler to supply air to two five gallon buckets and have one gallon ice cream buckets inside, with the bottoms drilled with a strainer pattern. I drilled holes around the side very close to the bottom so I could zip tie the air hoses around the bottom edge of each ice cream bucket. I figured if I’m going to go with the patient route, instead of starting with one pound in each bucket for data purposes, I used three pounds in each bucket. I had 20 ziplock bags filled with 455 to 460 grams in each bag. So a with a little math I will still get the data that one pound batches would have given. Each five gallon bucket has a lid loosely fit to the top of each bucket and they are housed in an all plastic bin that I had in my garage that really had no use. When the process is complete I will post pics of the yield from each bucket. So for now, all I have is time.
Attachments
Sorry, been gone a few days.
Butcher is right there is a way where there is will. I have used heating pads, the kind for sore muscles and things, and sit a bucket on top of them. Taking an electric blanket apart will work also. The wire is coated and placed between two blankets in such a manor they come apart like a puzzle.
The set up your using now resembles the one I started with that ended up being my first fume hood.
Butcher is right there is a way where there is will. I have used heating pads, the kind for sore muscles and things, and sit a bucket on top of them. Taking an electric blanket apart will work also. The wire is coated and placed between two blankets in such a manor they come apart like a puzzle.
The set up your using now resembles the one I started with that ended up being my first fume hood.
scrapparts
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floppy,
If that cabinet is metal (magnet sticks to it), that thing will corrode in a few weeks or a bit longer, but it won't last. A setup like that needs to be PVC/plastic.
Also, even still, it will destroy that cabinet soon is because there doesn't seem to be any lids for the buckets. You MUST have lids on them to keep deterioration at its lowest, IF that cabinet is metal. Don't lock the lids down, just place them over the buckets and let them vent. Also, if the weather is in the 40's and above, you don't need the cabinet at all. Just place them outside somewhere, out of reach of animals and humans, and the natural heat from the sun will be in your favor. Even in the cabinet you have them in, the heat it'll build up and work for you stripping your fingers, yet, you'll destroy that cabinet at the same time.
If your buckets must be surrounded/enclosed, use brick, wood or plastic. Using metal doing what we do can be your worst nightmare because it'll corrode before you know it.
I didn't forget about the pictures and how to make the containers and such that we all need. Now, we're in the 50's+, I'll make time to get to my lab and show some easy step-by-step ways to make the things you'll need. and hopefully, other members will benefit from the information.
scrapparts
If that cabinet is metal (magnet sticks to it), that thing will corrode in a few weeks or a bit longer, but it won't last. A setup like that needs to be PVC/plastic.
Also, even still, it will destroy that cabinet soon is because there doesn't seem to be any lids for the buckets. You MUST have lids on them to keep deterioration at its lowest, IF that cabinet is metal. Don't lock the lids down, just place them over the buckets and let them vent. Also, if the weather is in the 40's and above, you don't need the cabinet at all. Just place them outside somewhere, out of reach of animals and humans, and the natural heat from the sun will be in your favor. Even in the cabinet you have them in, the heat it'll build up and work for you stripping your fingers, yet, you'll destroy that cabinet at the same time.
If your buckets must be surrounded/enclosed, use brick, wood or plastic. Using metal doing what we do can be your worst nightmare because it'll corrode before you know it.
I didn't forget about the pictures and how to make the containers and such that we all need. Now, we're in the 50's+, I'll make time to get to my lab and show some easy step-by-step ways to make the things you'll need. and hopefully, other members will benefit from the information.
scrapparts
scrapparts said:
I appreciate your input scrapparts, but the cabinet was junk I just hadn’t thrown it out yet. But it is completely plastic, not even magnets on it to to keep the doors together, and my buckets do have lids that lay over the top. Trust me I know the corrosion it causes, I found that out the hard way about ten years ago. If you leave it around any metal they will pay the price. I did find out something new this time around though, if you use zip ties to secure your air tube to the bottom of your buckets they last just about 2 days or at least that’s how long the ones I put on did. They will now how to be fished out when the foils are ready for harvest. I started the buckets on the 20th of this month. I have agitated every two days and today they are starting to come along quite well but still have time to go. I’m hoping by next Sunday they will be ready. I’ll keep the post updated. I’m pretty curious to see the yield.
I put the buckets in a cabinet this time, because the last time I did this I used a lid and set it in a corner by my house. The fumes even with a lid aren’t good the vinyl siding I case anyone was wondering. It faded a fairly large portion of the siding quite badly. I had to replace three strips
scrapparts
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Wow,floppy said:
Good to know that. Glad you shared that!
scrapparts
jack_burton
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Looks awesome, following!
Well eleven days into the soak, and the fingers were ready to harvest. Not all the fingers were stripped cleanly, the overwhelming majority was though. So I saved the partially stripped for another day. I will post a pic of the two three pound batches later tonight after the foils dry and show weight. But I do have one question, the filter I ran my AP through pouring of to get the foils left a very black sludge in the filter. I will post a pic of one filter. Any ideas what it could be? I know there are some gold foils in it. Would inceneration have to be used to process the filters? I will be saving the filters in an airtight bag and an airtight box for future project. I am super excited to weigh the dry foils before the bleach takes them to solution.
Attachments
On a second note, after filtering the AP solution I added the bubbler and a steel bar to rejuvenate each bucket for the next batch of fingers. Each bucket has a about a gallon and a half of AP and processed three pounds of fingers. How long would you let it cement for before filtering the copper out and reusing?
floppy said:
:?:
The "AP" solution, which is actually a CuCl2 solution, depends on the copper. If you add steel, you'll no longer have a CuCl2 solution.
Dave
Spend some time gaining a better understanding of the cupric chloride leach. dealing with waste, and the ferric chloride leach, I feel you have some confusion about these processes you are attempting to use.
A study of these should answer all of your questions here, you seem to be confused on how to recover your values and reuse your solutions.
If you added iron to the solution and cemented out the copper you no longer have a copper chloride solution.
Normally we will add copper metal to the solution (not iron) to cement out precious metals leaving us with a copper-rich ionic solution Of CuCl to rejuvenate back into CuCl2 using a splash of acid and air...
Normally we only add iron to remove copper and a few other metals as a part of the waste treatment process.
You now have an iron chloride solution which can also be used as a ferric chloride leach, although it is somewhat different than the cupric chloride leaching process in how it is best used and rejuvenated and can be somewhat more complicated.
Old relay telephone exchange
The black could very possibly be silver chloride after sitting in the sun or dirty cemented gold or both, possible values at any rate.
A study of these should answer all of your questions here, you seem to be confused on how to recover your values and reuse your solutions.
If you added iron to the solution and cemented out the copper you no longer have a copper chloride solution.
Normally we will add copper metal to the solution (not iron) to cement out precious metals leaving us with a copper-rich ionic solution Of CuCl to rejuvenate back into CuCl2 using a splash of acid and air...
Normally we only add iron to remove copper and a few other metals as a part of the waste treatment process.
You now have an iron chloride solution which can also be used as a ferric chloride leach, although it is somewhat different than the cupric chloride leaching process in how it is best used and rejuvenated and can be somewhat more complicated.
Old relay telephone exchange
The black could very possibly be silver chloride after sitting in the sun or dirty cemented gold or both, possible values at any rate.
