Base metal removal

[Mr.Rhodium]

Hi all,

I have 100kg metal bar with about 1.2% precious metals (Rh, Pd, Pt, Ru, Au, Ag).
The rest of it are about 90% Fe and other metals like Co, Cd, In, Cr...
How can remove all or most of the base metals? or worse case concentrate the bar so the precious metals will be above 8%?

I tried to granulate it and put it in HCL. but it took days to dissolve little bit of the Fe.
Any suggestions? I want to scale it and make much more of those bars.
If someone in this forum can bring solution for scaling and can design an acceptable method I would like to pay for it.

I can make 10 similar metal bars or more every month.

Thank you.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi all,

I have 100kg metal bar with about 1.2% precious metals (Rh, Pd, Pt, Ru, Au, Ag).
The rest of it are about 90% Fe and other metals like Co, Cd, In, Cr...
How can remove all or most of the base metals? or worse case concentrate the bar so the precious metals will be above 8%?

I tried to granulate it and put it in HCL. but it took days to dissolve little bit of the Fe.
Any suggestions? I want to scale it and make much more of those bars.
If someone in this forum can bring solution for scaling and can design an acceptable method I would like to pay for it.

I can make 10 similar metal bars or more every month.

Thank you.

I find this a bit unbelievable, so you can make bars containing 12Kg precious metals a month.
How do you get hold of the material (ore/scrap) and how is it tested.

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

I find this a bit unbelievable, so you can make bars containing 12Kg precious metals a month.
How do you get hold of the material (ore/scrap) and how is it tested.

Hi,

I understand the skepticism, I've heard similar things before years ago on this very forum.
Fortunately I didn't listen to other skeptics.
I'm not trying to convince or explain beyond what I wrote. Certainly not in a big forum.
I believe I can do more than 12 kg per month but again that's not what I asked.
Regarding tests-
Several tests were done in several countries without connection between the laboratories and those laboratories did drilling in the metal, they tested the chips with ICP and based on those reports I base my conclusion.

My problem is different, what is the right way to concentrate or separate the expensive blows.

Thanks.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi,

I understand the skepticism, I've heard similar things before years ago on this very forum.
Fortunately I didn't listen to other skeptics.
I'm not trying to convince or explain beyond what I wrote. Certainly not in a big forum.
I believe I can do more than 12 kg per month but again that's not what I asked.
Regarding tests-
Several tests were done in several countries without connection between the laboratories and those laboratories did drilling in the metal, they tested the chips with ICP and based on those reports I base my conclusion.

My problem is different, what is the right way to concentrate or separate the expensive blows.

Thanks.

Most likely hydrometallurgy is not the best route to take.
Likely some variety of pyrometallurgy will probably be best.
Smelting and oxygen sparging will oxidize most of the base metals so they report to the slag, I guess.

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

Most likely hydrometallurgy is not the best route to take.
Likely some variety of pyrometallurgy will probably be best.
Smelting and oxygen sparging will oxidize most of the base metals so they report to the slag, I guess.

Many thanks for your help

 

[Martijn]

So you make these bars yourself and want to get the pm's out? From what do you make them?

 

[Martijn]

What i mean, is there any way of separation before melting?

 

[CosmoIridium]

Good luck with that problem. Might as well say goodbye to any precious metals. And there's a good chance there's only trace precious metals because that amount of iron will fool the best machines like icp. Do you have a fire assay?
Have you produced any precious metals that you actually sold? I think not.

Hi all,

I have 100kg metal bar with about 1.2% precious metals (Rh, Pd, Pt, Ru, Au, Ag).
The rest of it are about 90% Fe and other metals like Co, Cd, In, Cr...
How can remove all or most of the base metals? or worse case concentrate the bar so the precious metals will be above 8%?

I tried to granulate it and put it in HCL. but it took days to dissolve little bit of the Fe.
Any suggestions? I want to scale it and make much more of those bars.
If someone in this forum can bring solution for scaling and can design an acceptable method I would like to pay for it.

I can make 10 similar metal bars or more every month.

Thank you.

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

Thank you for your reply.
I have no doubt about what's in there. I tested it before and after. Tested with ICP, DCP fire assay etc..
Yes, I once extracted precious metals out in small scale using AR after cleaning some base metals.
If you don't have a solution or idea, how does your answer helps? you are using the words Might, good chance, I think not. meaning you are not sure there is no solution but you think there Is no solution.
Did I asked if someone thinks there is no solution? I Cleary asked if someone got solution and as you can see, other people saw this post and didn't reply because they have no solution for what I am asking.

you don't know the case, you don't know the research etc.. but you are assuming base on what?
Many thanks but if you want I can teach you one or two things.
I already did it, with PGM and Au in hand. my problem is that it took me long time and I am trying to improve it.

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

What i mean, is there any way of separation before melting?

All from concentrate ore. all the base metals are in already.
I tried, shaking table, magnetic separation and more but I am losing good values trying those methods.
I tried to add Cu as collector as well but the electrolysis is very very slow because of those base metals.
It took me Years to find a wat how to get the metals out of the ore.
Now I am in the last stage

 

[Makcc]

I will get you a solution. Hold on.

 

[Shark]

Just a guess but I think Yaggdrasil may be on to the method, fire. Sparging when melting or cupeling later, or maybe both.

 

[rusti2]

Thank you for your reply.
I have no doubt about what's in there. I tested it before and after. Tested with ICP, DCP fire assay etc..
Yes, I once extracted precious metals out in small scale using AR after cleaning some base metals.
If you don't have a solution or idea, how does your answer helps? you are using the words Might, good chance, I think not. meaning you are not sure there is no solution but you think there Is no solution.
Did I asked if someone thinks there is no solution? I Cleary asked if someone got solution and as you can see, other people saw this post and didn't reply because they have no solution for what I am asking.

you don't know the case, you don't know the research etc.. but you are assuming base on what?
Many thanks but if you want I can teach you one or two things.
I already did it, with PGM and Au in hand. my problem is that it took me long time and I am trying to improve it.
[/QUOT

Thank you for your reply.
I have no doubt about what's in there. I tested it before and after. Tested with ICP, DCP fire assay etc..
Yes, I once extracted precious metals out in small scale using AR after cleaning some base metals.
If you don't have a solution or idea, how does your answer helps? you are using the words Might, good chance, I think not. meaning you are not sure there is no solution but you think there Is no solution.
Did I asked if someone thinks there is no solution? I Cleary asked if someone got solution and as you can see, other people saw this post and didn't reply because they have no solution for what I am asking.

you don't know the case, you don't know the research etc.. but you are assuming base on what?
Many thanks but if you want I can teach you one or two things.
I already did it, with PGM and Au in hand. my problem is that it took me long time and I am trying to improve it.

In minerals, iron is found as oxides or sulphides eventually, it is difficult to explain how he reduced the iron to metallic, if the iron in the final alloy comes from the ore, since temperatures of the order of 1500 degrees Celsius are required. and very reducing conditions in the molten bath. An alternative, as mentioned, is the fusion of the bar and the blowing of the molten material with pressurized air, forming a fine shot that is leachable with hot hydrochloric or sulfuric acid and with agitation.

Edited by Moderator to get the posters text out of the quote

 

[Yggdrasil]

In minerals, iron is found as oxides or sulphides eventually, it is difficult to explain how he reduced the iron to metallic, if the iron in the final alloy comes from the ore, since temperatures of the order of 1500 degrees Celsius are required. and very reducing conditions in the molten bath. An alternative, as mentioned, is the fusion of the bar and the blowing of the molten material with pressurized air, forming a fine shot that is leachable with hot hydrochloric or sulfuric acid and with agitation.

Edited by Moderator to get the posters text out of the quote

The sparging is not to pulverize the metals, but the reverse of what you initially do to get the Iron.
You blow air through the smelt to oxidize the base metals so they go into the slag and such concentrate the precious metals.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi,

I understand the skepticism, I've heard similar things before years ago on this very forum.
Fortunately I didn't listen to other skeptics.
I'm not trying to convince or explain beyond what I wrote. Certainly not in a big forum.
I believe I can do more than 12 kg per month but again that's not what I asked.
Regarding tests-
Several tests were done in several countries without connection between the laboratories and those laboratories did drilling in the metal, they tested the chips with ICP and based on those reports I base my conclusion.

My problem is different, what is the right way to concentrate or separate the expensive blows.

Thanks.

How do you obtain the bars?
Are you producing them?

If so I think you should change your process and not reduce Iron ore to Iron in the first place.
If you pulverize the ore and add a collector metal and flux, you can drive off the unwanted base metals as slag
and concentrate the values in more or less one smelt.

 

[rusti2]

The sparging is not to pulverize the metals, but the reverse of what you initially do to get the Iron.
You blow air through the smelt to oxidize the base metals so they go into the slag and such concentrate the precious metals.

I understood, but I don't think it's viable, the alloy has 90% Fe would produce an unmanageable amount of slag with a melting point between 1300-1500 °C that would surely trap significant parts of PGM, unless the melting point is regulated and the fluidity of slag with fluxes

 

[scrappyjoe]

my skepticism started in the first post...

why would you intentionally pour 100 kg bars when you could pour 5 or 10 kilo bars?

let me guess ... you have the capability, space,facilities and equipment to move/grind / smelt tonnes of ore , pour and handle 100 kg ingots ...

but essentially you don't know what to do with them when you are finished ...

am i correct so far ?

and you've been doing this how long ?

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

How do you obtain the bars?
Are you producing them?

If so I think you should change your process and not reduce Iron ore to Iron in the first place.
If you pulverize the ore and add a collector metal and flux, you can drive off the unwanted base metals as slag
and concentrate the values in more or less one smelt.

I am using very high temp (around 1900c) with ore and flux.
I noticed that when I used lower temperature lots of the values stays in the slag.
I tried it with copper as collector. but similar issue. when I am using electroplating the current drops from time to time and it takes month to finish the bar. replacing the liquid every week, and filter the slimes.

So if I am using lower temperature I am not getting all of the PGMs

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

I understood, but I don't think it's viable, the alloy has 90% Fe would produce an unmanageable amount of slag with a melting point between 1300-1500 °C that would surely trap significant parts of PGM, unless the melting point is regulated and the fluidity of slag with fluxes

Exactly, with lower temperature lots of values stays in the slag.

 

[Mr.Rhodium]

my skepticism started in the first post...

why would you intentionally pour 100 kg bars when you could pour 5 or 10 kilo bars?

let me guess ... you have the capability, space,facilities and equipment to move/grind / smelt tonnes of ore , pour and handle 100 kg ingots ...

but essentially you don't know what to do with them when you are finished ...

am i correct so far ?

and you've been doing this how long ?

I done it with small furnace in small scale and it took me long long time to separate the metals.
The idea of the 100kg bars is mainly costs and capacity.
To get 5kg bar I need to put 50kg ore and flux and... the power, crucible change every 5 smelts employees etc.. cost me more in small scale. but if I do 1t smelt (no collector) I get 100kg bar in one shut.
Yes, I can after I get the 100kg bar to remelt it to small bars/beads for example 5kg bars as you mentioned.

I did R&D small scale for over a year with that method and I got the right way how to extract 93% of all precious metals. some still remain in the slag but I can remelt them again.
When I use copper as collector I get even more metals out.

I have done all kind of test with wet chemistry as well for the last 5 years in order to find the way how to extract the metals from the ore. now that I have the method how to extract them to metal form I have 3 options-
1. refine them my self metal by metal.
2. find a refinery that can be trusted and accept to deal with such amount of iron and base metals.
3. remove part/all of the base metals so it will be at least 10% precious metals and I can sell it as is.

But as mentioned, the ratio between base metals and precious metals is very high, and this is where I am stuck.
There are solutions, I have few, but it takes forever and I want to make it quicker.

Thanks