Beginner questions and mistakes

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jason_recliner

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It is good practise to always acquaint yourself with the reactions. The more effective anything is, the greater a reaction it can give. Sometimes violently.

Instead of dumping it in, try sprinkling some in whilst stirring.
 

Grelko

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jason_recliner said:
It is good practise to always acquaint yourself with the reactions. The more effective anything is, the greater a reaction it can give. Sometimes violently.

Instead of dumping it in, try sprinkling some in whilst stirring.

I'll give it another a try tomorrow, but only use a small amount to see how it reacts (which I should have done in the first place :oops: ). I dumped in the 1/2 cup while I was stirring it, which is probably why it foamed up so quick.

I did notice however, that once the foaming stops, the bubbles basically stay there and look dried up after a couple minutes. If I spray water on the foam after that, it falls down easily.
 

Geo

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A spray of water will knock the foam down. A garden sprayer full of water and spray the foam as it's made.
 

Grelko

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This is working much better now.

I VERY SLOWLY added close to 5 cups, about a tablespoon at a time, while stirring it until most of the foam was gone each time, and also using a spray bottle to knock the foam down whenever the bubbles got bigger.

I haven't checked the PH yet, but it's slowly looking more clear. Atleast I won't make the mistake of dumping a bunch in next time. :lol:

I didn't think it was going to take as long as it is to raise the PH, I'm about 2 hours into it so far, and I know It'll take another couple hours to get close to 4 gallons neutralized, but I'm not in any hurry (This would be why people evaporate most of their solution first). Then I'll let it settle for a day or so, decant the clear solution, get the powder at the bottom, dry it, and take it to the scrapyard. If they won't accept it, I'll take it to the waste management building. it was 3.5 pounds of mixed pins, so I don't think it would contain much more than iron, zinc, copper, and maybe some tin or aluminum.

If anyone is wondering, I didn't reclaim the copper, so I'm just neutralizing it this first time since I'm learning the disposal method "acquaintance test". I still have another gallon+ of used AP that I'm going to keep for the next couple batches.

Back when I had the solution full of copper, before I added the iron, I ended up getting a bit more black powder, I didn't weigh it yet, it wasn't much.
 

searcher1x

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This shouldn't take quite as long as it would with brand new pins because alot of them got scratched up when I was pulling them out of the black plastic connectors. I used a heat gun to warm up the plastic a bit, and the pins came right out.

Good tip Grelko! Thanks, I'll put that one too good use
 

searcher1x

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If you don't have access to a sulfuric cell and you want to get your gold off the pins, then the best way and fastest way I know is to make your Aqua Regia (Muriatic Acid + Chlorine/bleach) and then add 50% of water to the solution and put it on heat. What will happen is that while you're trying to evaporate all the water you put in the beaker, the ar will be loosening off the gold and when you stir the solution you'll see your gold floating around.

To remove the gold really fast, you can simply make the AR and add it to medium heat for 1 hour, and then after that, add the 50% volume of water to the solution and turn the heat on high. Most of your gold will flake off but remember, as you evaporate the water out, you're making the solution more concentrated and it will eventually dissolve the gold if you let the solution get to its initial volume level without the water added.

The best thing to do after you see plenty of gold flakes swirling around in the solution is to filter the solution to capture all the gold, and then place the solution back in the beaker and star it again until all your gold is flaked off.

The key is adding the water. The water will hold the AR from actually dissolving the gold, but it will be strong enough to start dissolving some of the base metals. It works for me and that's how I do my fiber pinless cpu's.

MrMylar, questions Sir:

1) From the technique you just outlined am I correct in assuming that you don't have to dissolve all of the base metal first before causing the pins too flake?

2) Do you need to remove any of the base metals first using AP first (such as lead or copper) before applying your diluted, hot AR/water boil technique? If so, how much and which ones?

3) My understanding is that the main objective of using AR is to put the gold in solution which then allows you to filter off any remaining solids. However (if I understand correctly) by the addition of the excess water, the AR is weakened to the point that it's not strong enough to put the gold in solution, but of sufficient strength to dissolve enough of the base metals to flake the gold without having to dissolve all of the base metals first, is this correct?

4) Will this technique work on pins that are composed mostly of magnetic materials or would it be a good idea to run the pins through a hot HLC/water bath then a hot sulfuric/water bath next before using your diluted, hot AR/water boil technique?

Thanks for your response in advance, any and all positive feedback is truly appreciated
 

g_axelsson

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Mr Mylar was banned from the forum a while ago so you won't get any answers from him.

In the quote you posted there is a glaring error, AR or Aqua Regia is not made of Muriatic Acid + Chlorine/bleach. Aqua Regia is a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid, nothing else. (Muriatic acid is just another name of hydrochloric acid.)

About the procedure I have no comments as I haven't tested it myself.

Göran
 

searcher1x

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g_axelsson said:
Mr Mylar was banned from the forum a while ago so you won't get any answers from him.

In the quote you posted there is a glaring error, AR or Aqua Regia is not made of Muriatic Acid + Chlorine/bleach. Aqua Regia is a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid, nothing else. (Muriatic acid is just another name of hydrochloric acid.)

About the procedure I have no comments as I haven't tested it myself.

Göran

Wow, you're absolutely right, I didn't catch that at first. Guess I should pay a little closer attention to what I'm reading.

Just for clarity, I didn't make the post, MrMylar did. I was just questioning the process. What he claimed was contrary to everything I have read and learned so far. Thought perhaps I has missed something along the way.
 

Grelko

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searcher1x said:
1) From the technique you just outlined am I correct in assuming that you don't have to dissolve all of the base metal first before causing the pins too flake?

2) Do you need to remove any of the base metals first using AP first (such as lead or copper) before applying your diluted, hot AR/water boil technique? If so, how much and which ones?

Let's see if I can answer a couple of these for you.

Another post that you had, talking about a bubbler, you don't really NEED one, but it will definately cut you're time dissolving material by alot. The 3.5 pounds of pins that I had, would have probably taken close to 8 months to finish "I didn't want to find out :lol: ", but with a bubbler, I think it took about 3 weeks or so. Even heating the solution will speed up the process, boiling, direct sunlight etc. Still takes a good while to dissolve alot of material.

1. --- I ended up having to dissolve everything because, I most likely dissolved some gold from adding alot of peroxide (H2O2).

As far as I've read, if you put copper into HCL and just let it sit there a while "maybe a couple weeks/months", it'll form copper chloride (CuCl2) simply because the air gets into it slowly. If you use copper chloride, without peroxide, you "should" be able to get the gold flakes off of the pins without having to dissolve everything. (I haven't tried this yet, but I have more pins to work on eventually)

2. --- I haven't used AR yet, but I believe it's possible to use it to dissolve everything, then precipitate the gold with SMB after getting rid of the nitric in solution (I'm not sure if PGMs would precipitate with it). I would atleast put everything into HCL, to get rid of any solder first, because you don't want Tin to get dissolved by nitric, because it's very hard to get it out/filter. It'll turn into a gel type substance (Metastannic acid) that can trap your gold. (Others can add alot more information to this)


If someone notices that any of my responses need correcting, please let me know, because I really dislike accidently giving out mis-information. Plus it'll help me learn and remember the "proper" ways to process certain materials.
 

Shark

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2. --- I haven't used AR yet, but I believe it's possible to use it to dissolve everything, then precipitate the gold with SMB after getting rid of the nitric in solution

Sounds like a good time to try copperas.
 

Grelko

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Shark said:
Sounds like a good time to try copperas.

I should look into using that sometime. There should be alot of information on here about copperas (FeSO4). Basically all I've been using so far is HCL and H2O2 until I get a fumehood because of my neighbors. That's why I haven't tried nitric (HNO3) yet. I was going to setup a sulfuric (H2SO4) cell eventually, but I always end up getting side tracked :roll: Lately, I've been working on my pile of chips.

Incase anyone is wondering, I've been putting the chemical formulas in () so that I can remember them. I never learned chemistry in school.
 

Cap1

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Hello All, I purchased hydrochloric acid from Bunnings in Australia and hydrogen peroxide from a chemist. Mixed the two to get an AP solution and the color turns red without adding any metals to the mix. I've seen in many videos the making of this AP mixture but never turning red. Could one or the other chemical be faulty or just expired? Or, overlook the red color of the AP solution and continue with the gold process.
 

Yggdrasil

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Hello All, I purchased hydrochloric acid from Bunnings in Australia and hydrogen peroxide from a chemist. Mixed the two to get an AP solution and the color turns red without adding any metals to the mix. I've seen in many videos the making of this AP mixture but never turning red. Could one or the other chemical be faulty or just expired? Or, overlook the red color of the AP solution and continue with the gold process.
Never premix things, shelf life drops like a lead sinker, and the actual need for the chemical added may be a lot less then the mixture you have.
Another thing is that AP is not an Acid Peroxide leach after all, it is a Copper Chloride etch/leach and it don't need Peroxide at all.
It needs HCl, Copper and Oxygen. Find some oxidized green copper, put it in HCl and start bubbling air through it.
 

Deano

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The HCl sold in Bunnings and many retail outlets is usually packaged under the Diggers brand.
It has been used for titanium removal from mineral sands and has low levels of titanium 2 chloride in solution.
If heated in an oxidising environment the titanium 2 chloride converts to titanium 3 chloride which has a pink to mauve colour, this is what you see in your solution.
It will not interfere with digestion of gold but will require excess levels of reducer during the precipitation of gold stage as the titanium 3 acts as an oxidiser and inhibits gold precipitation.
You have to add enough reducing agent to get the titanium 3 back to titanium 2 before the gold will fully precipitate.
The HCl is usually sold in 20 litre drums and is labelled as having a HCL level around 27%, not the usual 32% technical grade.
For most uses such as removal of mortar from brickwork the Diggers HCl is fine, it is only in niche applications such as precious metals processing that there are problems with precipitation from solution.
Deano
 
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