For Sale Bruker M1 Mistral XRF Instrument- bench type

[babytrilly]

2010 Bruker M1 Mistral XRF Instrument that is in very good working condition. We are considering selling it. If you are interested please pm us. The instrument is a lab quality bench type and is heavy. It cost around $40,000 new. It is located in Michigan and is registered with the State of Michigan for Xray emissions. It has a computer connected and a printer used to be connected and easy to connect again (not included).
The instrument is calibrated to run bulk analysis and has also custom programs to run specific analysis on gold jewelry, silver, etc. It has worked well over the years and we have found it to be very predictable of the assays the various refineries have paid on. Typically when we send a melted impure bar of scrap jewelry into a refiner their analysis correlates with ours to an amazing high tolerance.
We don't have an asking price as we are evaluating all options. If you are serious about this instrument let us know. The biggest "issue" is the shipping of this instrument. It will need to be cratered and protected or potentially picked up in Michigan. Two strong people should be able to carry it. There is one little item that is not perfect and that is that the key that turns it on is broken. Part of it is inside the key hole. The other part of the key can still be inserted and used to turn it on and off.

 

[4metals]

This is not an instrument for a hobby refiner but for a professional refiner these work exceptionally well with reproducible results comparable to fire assay. That said I think @babytrilly will fare better if he or she gives some indication of the asking price and any documentation of a service history.

 

[4metals]

@babytrilly I just went back and read your first thread from when you were starting out. You mentioned the difference between your XRF result and your refiners XRF was close to 2% off so you did not sell. Later you mentioned that refiner was NTR.

I've heard horror stories about folks taking the XRF results of NTR at face value and selling to them. How did that relationship work out for you?

 

[babytrilly]

To my recollection we never did business with NTR.

We use standards for 10k white / yellow gold and for 10k / 14k yellow gold purchased from Eastern Applied Research Inc. to check that our instrument is doing well. We run a reference calibration every time we start the instrument. Over the years we have used different refiners, some good, some awful. I don't want to get into details for the ones that are dishonest. I can say however, that for several years we have done business with Hi-Tech PMR and our XRF results on karat scrap jewelry and their XRF has been very satisfying. For example, my last shipment a couple of weeks ago was for 15.317 Toz (their results) and my analysis (expectation) was 15.29 Toz. I try to be a bit conservative when I put it all together so I am pleased when they come out slightly higher. It can and does go in both directions. I call that very good correlation.

This is my first attempt to list this instrument. I am hoping to get quotes for professional equipment buyers and then formulate a selling price. Maybe it is like selling a car- having never bought a used XRF, and not knowing if there is a "blue book" value I am not ready to blurt out a price. This posting is my first attempt to see if there is interest.

You are correct that this is a professional instrument and suitable for those familiar with its operation. I can show someone how to use it but it is actually not for someone who is not a "techy" person and regardless of how good the instrument is you can get garbage data out if you don't know what you are doing. When it comes to testing refining liquids, powders, and other things it can impart a false sense of security, but in the right hands it is very useful.

 

[grainsofgold]

I would imagine you are testing pin samples pulled from the melt correct ?

Just curious if you are pulling them from the center of the molten metal in the crucible or if you’ve determined another location to pull it from to give you more of an accurate reading?

I’ve found that in poured ingots, Au readings will vary from position to position when taking a reading on the ingot.

Thought i’d ask to see what your preferred method is to be the most accurate.

Nice machine - Are you upgrading it to a newer one ?

thank you.

GOG

 

[babytrilly]

I would imagine you are testing pin samples pulled from the melt correct ?

Just curious if you are pulling them from the center of the molten metal in the crucible or if you’ve determined another location to pull it from to give you more of an accurate reading?

I’ve found that in poured ingots, Au readings will vary from position to position when taking a reading on the ingot.

Thought i’d ask to see what your preferred method is to be the most accurate.

Nice machine - Are you upgrading it to a newer one ?

thank you.

GOG

The ideal method is to get a pin sample from the melt. We use an induction oven so the melt is pretty uniform and the pin is taken from the middle of the crucible. Ideally the pin sample is flattened in the rollers and then tested. Practically on a day to day when pressed for time, a quick and dirty method comes close enough to be able to know-on average- what the refinery will be testing on their remelted bar and their pin sample. If you take a melted ingot and you drill a 4 holes on both sides of the bar and test those and also test an equivalent number of flat areas and average the results it seems to come close enough that you have a high degree of confidence of what the %Au, %Ag will turn out. The instrument gives you the standard deviation of the sample points. Keep the standard deviation low and sample more areas if it is too high. After hundreds of samples and developing a technique on which collimator to use and how many spots to sample, and how deep to drill the holes, etc and comparing to pin samples you can come close enough to assign an insurance value and have some close enough expectation of the end result. Sometimes you have just a few minutes to get something tested and shipped before pick up time. Some refineries give you a fire assay and others XRF results. It has worked just fine with XRF and it is faster and cheaper when needing a quick turn around.

We will be retiring from this business. Therefore, we will be selling the instrument and everything else.

 

[thesillym]

@babytrilly I just went back and read your first thread from when you were starting out. You mentioned the difference between your XRF result and your refiners XRF was close to 2% off so you did not sell. Later you mentioned that refiner was NTR.

I've heard horror stories about folks taking the XRF results of NTR at face value and selling to them. How did that relationship work out for you?

I have dealt with NTR (now Elemetal) a fair amount. Depending on which location you use and how well they know you, they may try to skew the numbers in their favor to varying degrees, or they may be completely fair and honest.

 

[grainsofgold]

The ideal method is to get a pin sample from the melt. We use an induction oven so the melt is pretty uniform and the pin is taken from the middle of the crucible. Ideally the pin sample is flattened in the rollers and then tested. Practically on a day to day when pressed for time, a quick and dirty method comes close enough to be able to know-on average- what the refinery will be testing on their remelted bar and their pin sample. If you take a melted ingot and you drill a 4 holes on both sides of the bar and test those and also test an equivalent number of flat areas and average the results it seems to come close enough that you have a high degree of confidence of what the %Au, %Ag will turn out. The instrument gives you the standard deviation of the sample points. Keep the standard deviation low and sample more areas if it is too high. After hundreds of samples and developing a technique on which collimator to use and how many spots to sample, and how deep to drill the holes, etc and comparing to pin samples you can come close enough to assign an insurance value and have some close enough expectation of the end result. Sometimes you have just a few minutes to get something tested and shipped before pick up time. Some refineries give you a fire assay and others XRF results. It has worked just fine with XRF and it is faster and cheaper when needing a quick turn around.

We will be retiring from this business. Therefore, we will be selling the instrument and everything else.

Thank you for sharing. Much appreciated!