E Scrap straight to AR ,my biggest mistake.

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GodLiegeman

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2022
Messages
17
Location
Lithuania
So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About 2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc. Added everything to my container-1.5 L water,scraps, 1L nitric acid and by my dumbest mistake 0.5 l muriatic acid.

Next morning,very nice turquoise color. No foils,check the bottle,face palm.

Now I will explain what I did.Tests:

1.Sample 200ml, added Urea to neutralise Nitric. SC negative. Precipitated with SMB. Have insane white layer on bottom,filtered.Remaining solution blue, SC positive (!!?) .Boiled it of and decanted multiple times with water, solids reduced. Dissolved in muriatic, changed color to deep green. Filtered solids,washed ,dissolved in AR ,Urea added.SC negative.

2.Sample 150ml. Added 50 ml muriatic,instant change color to deep green. Added urea. Precipitation with SMB, reaction very strong.Bubbles forming ,stoped when intense smell came and reaction almost not visible.NO precipitation at all.SC positive.( Assumed due to excess gas)

3.Sample 40 ml. Added urea .Small amount of sulfuric acid. No precipitation of white powder. Adding some muriatic, change color to deep green.

4. 200ml added urea.Peace of copper to solution. Washed of cement from copper(white and black colours) , dissolving solids in AR. Very small sample. Added urea( multiple stages of addition and testing) SC negative.

Question is. My base solution still have some solids on bottom after course filtering and siting still for couple of days,maybe gold is there ?
Why does solution change from blue to green when I add some muriatic to it?

What should I do to my base sollution and in general how do I recover ?

And what can give SC false positive ?
 
Filter your liquid. evaporate it and make a syrup. Add equal amount of hcl and put a copper bar into it. your solution is dirty as trash now. Best way is cementing with copper.

i m not suspecting from solids but keep it.
 
Filter your liquid. evaporate it and make a syrup. Add equal amount of hcl and put a copper bar into it. your solution is dirty as trash now. Best way is cementing with copper.

i m not suspecting from solids but keep it.
I have to disagree. He made AR. There are still solids remaining. Any gold that dissolved would almost certainly have cemented out on the remaining solids. Since he has had negative stannous tests on all his experiments on the solution, I'd bet the gold is among the solids.

Dave
 
I have to disagree. He made AR. There are still solids remaining. Any gold that dissolved would almost certainly have cemented out on the remaining solids. Since he has had negative stannous tests on all his experiments on the solution, I'd bet the gold is among the solids.

Dave
I will try filtering the solids and try to dissolve sample in AR to test with SC or should I first boil of and decant solids sample?
 
So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About 2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc. Added everything to my container-1.5 L water,scraps, 1L nitric acid and by my dumbest mistake 0.5 l muriatic acid.

Next morning,very nice turquoise color. No foils,check the bottle,face palm.

Now I will explain what I did.Tests:

1.Sample 200ml, added Urea to neutralise Nitric. SC negative. Precipitated with SMB. Have insane white layer on bottom,filtered.Remaining solution blue, SC positive (!!?) .Boiled it of and decanted multiple times with water, solids reduced. Dissolved in muriatic, changed color to deep green. Filtered solids,washed ,dissolved in AR ,Urea added.SC negative.

2.Sample 150ml. Added 50 ml muriatic,instant change color to deep green. Added urea. Precipitation with SMB, reaction very strong.Bubbles forming ,stoped when intense smell came and reaction almost not visible.NO precipitation at all.SC positive.( Assumed due to excess gas)

3.Sample 40 ml. Added urea .Small amount of sulfuric acid. No precipitation of white powder. Adding some muriatic, change color to deep green.

4. 200ml added urea.Peace of copper to solution. Washed of cement from copper(white and black colours) , dissolving solids in AR. Very small sample. Added urea( multiple stages of addition and testing) SC negative.

Question is. My base solution still have some solids on bottom after course filtering and siting still for couple of days,maybe gold is there ?
Why does solution change from blue to green when I add some muriatic to it?

What should I do to my base sollution and in general how do I recover ?

And what can give SC false positive ?
Note: base solution is turquoise color.Boiling of sample makes it deep green as well as in previous experiments adding more muriatic.Same result ,different approaches.Maybe this information is useful to you guys.
 
I will try filtering the solids and try to dissolve sample in AR to test with SC or should I first boil of and decant solids sample?
Its up to you. Filter your solution and start evaporating. Its gonna take some time. Meantime you can work on solids.
 
1.Sample 200ml, added Urea to neutralise Nitric.
Why didn't you neutralize the free nitric with peanut butter or orange juice?
Or did you just copy a YouTube disinfo 'heres how to harakiri' movie?

Really people: stop using urea!!!
 
But to give some real advise: STOP! Study.

And:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
To comment Aetyr's advice:
Give some background info why certain steps need to be followed in your opinion.
We try to avoid the 'do this, do that' process tutorials and instead make people understand what's going on. Knowledge is power. Youtube is lethal.
Just repeating your advice: evaporate and do this, do that does not help anyone in any way. I for one don't understand why that would be necessary in this particular case.

It's am attitude which sustains the Urea misconception e.g.
Please consider contributing differently.

Martijn.
 
Filter your liquid. evaporate it and make a syrup. Add equal amount of hcl and put a copper bar into it. your solution is dirty as trash now. Best way is cementing with copper.

i m not suspecting from solids but keep it.

Per the bold print (above) - there is absolutely NO reason to do that --- his stannous test is negative - which means there is no gold (or other PMs) in the solution

Therefore he can simply treat the solution as base metal WASTE

As Dave (FrugalRefiner) said any PMs that may have dissolved have already cemented out & are now in the solids

Kurt
 
Per the bold print (above) - there is absolutely NO reason to do that --- his stannous test is negative - which means there is no gold (or other PMs) in the solution

Therefore he can simply treat the solution as base metal WASTE

As Dave (FrugalRefiner) said any PMs that may have dissolved have already cemented out & are now in the solids

Kurt
I think that excess Nitric acid prevents SC to show properly.So I will separate solids and treat all liquids as described in book as evaporation process and test again.
 
But to give some real advise: STOP! Study.

And:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
To comment Aetyr's advice:
Give some background info why certain steps need to be followed in your opinion.
We try to avoid the 'do this, do that' process tutorials and instead make people understand what's going on. Knowledge is power. Youtube is lethal.
Just repeating your advice: evaporate and do this, do that does not help anyone in any way. I for one don't understand why that would be necessary in this particular case.

It's am attitude which sustains the Urea misconception e.g.
Please consider contributing differently.

Martijn.
As I understood from Hoke's book. I do evaporation process couple of cycles,filter. And add peace of copper to cement gold and other less reactive metals?
 
I think that excess Nitric acid prevents SC to show properly.So I will separate solids and treat all liquids as described in book as evaporation process and test again.
Per the bold print - that just is not true !!!

if there is gold in solution you WILL get a positive test with your stannous

If there is excess (free) nitric in the solution you will still get a positive (if gold is in solution) it is just that the positive result of the test will "fade away" as a result of the free nitric --- it takes time for it to fade away - how much time depends (somewhat) on how much free nitric

bottom line - if gold is in solution - stannous will always give you a positive test result - even if it only shows up for a minute or two

Kurt
 
As I understood from Hoke's book. I do evaporation process couple of cycles,filter. And add peace of copper to cement gold and other less reactive metals?

If you do not get a positive stannous test result - do not waste your time chasing something that is not there !!!

If no positive stannous test - that means your gold is still in the solids - chase that instead of the solution

Kurt
 
If you do not get a positive stannous test result - do not waste your time chasing something that is not there !!!

If no positive stannous test - that means your gold is still in the solids - chase that instead of the solution

Kurt
Okey,now I am in total loss.I did evaporation cycle three times(by Hoke's book) with small amount of sulfuric acid.Syrup came out as green-brown. Took sample, diluted with distilled water. Took SC test, almost instant super dark brown. Decided to take bigger sample, diluted with water. Added SMB. Absolutely NO precipitation,solution turned turquoise. And SC is NEGATIVE. So I am lost, completely. How the f can I get Positive SC if no urea or SMB was added and negative after with ZERO precipitation.Solution is crystal clear.
 
So,my first try to recover gold scrap.About 2kg in total,ram sticks,boards ,pins and etc. Added everything to my container-1.5 L water,scraps, 1L nitric acid and by my dumbest mistake 0.5 l muriatic acid.

Next morning,very nice turquoise color. No foils,check the bottle,face palm.

Now I will explain what I did.Tests:

1.Sample 200ml, added Urea to neutralise Nitric. SC negative. Precipitated with SMB. Have insane white layer on bottom,filtered.Remaining solution blue, SC positive (!!?) .Boiled it of and decanted multiple times with water, solids reduced. Dissolved in muriatic, changed color to deep green. Filtered solids,washed ,dissolved in AR ,Urea added.SC negative.

2.Sample 150ml. Added 50 ml muriatic,instant change color to deep green. Added urea. Precipitation with SMB, reaction very strong.Bubbles forming ,stoped when intense smell came and reaction almost not visible.NO precipitation at all.SC positive.( Assumed due to excess gas)

3.Sample 40 ml. Added urea .Small amount of sulfuric acid. No precipitation of white powder. Adding some muriatic, change color to deep green.

4. 200ml added urea.Peace of copper to solution. Washed of cement from copper(white and black colours) , dissolving solids in AR. Very small sample. Added urea( multiple stages of addition and testing) SC negative.

Question is. My base solution still have some solids on bottom after course filtering and siting still for couple of days,maybe gold is there ?
Why does solution change from blue to green when I add some muriatic to it?

What should I do to my base sollution and in general how do I recover ?

And what can give SC false positive ?
So,as you gentlemen said in. Solids is the most possible to contain my gold.Question is, do I dissolve them in nitric acid ,decant and boil of couple of times in water and try refine again. Or boil of in water, decant and dissolve in muriatic. And start refining again?
 
Been there, done that, and had my ass handed over on a tray by Bitcher and other colleagues :):):):);)
Since it still aches, I have not only compiled dozens of threads organized by specifics, I also have Hooke, my Uni books, and my notebook where I follow very deliberately intentional steps for the silliest things. Mistakes are rare.
First: stop it all, take a step back, breathe and clear your mind of any and everything you think you know.
Second: filter and make sure to have a nice separation of solids and liquids.
Third: cook the liquid to a syrup-like consistency.
Fourth: dilute just a bit with HCL and add to a resting container with clean pure copper pieces, wait a couple of weeks.
Fifth: wash the solids clean with water, make sure all solution is gone.
Sixth: cook in HCl (and HCl only) until the last boil is transparently clean.
Seventh: wash with water several times.
Eighth: it is time for HNO3 like 3:1 with water, here you will have to observe, make sure you go until the solution is clean again
Ninth: wash, wash, wash, wash in hot water.
Tenth: process in AR

What is my line of thinking: since my hobby became serious, I am optimizing everything I can to reduce costs. The worst cost for me is HNO3.
I dedicate a considerable amount of attention to whatever comes before the first A/R (I even replace some of the refining steps with poor man's AR, strong A/P, or HCl/Clorine). There are unexpected situations, accidents, etc.

So I take steps back and try to bring everything to a clean slate. In my case, I have been using more H2SO4 for some of the recovery steps (I want to get rid of everything that is not Au and PGMs).

This case is a good example to take a few steps back, reset, try to separate the more possible, try to clean the more possible to remain only with refining material.
 
Been there, done that, and had my ass handed over on a tray by Bitcher and other colleagues :):):):);)
Since it still aches, I have not only compiled dozens of threads organized by specifics, I also have Hooke, my Uni books, and my notebook where I follow very deliberately intentional steps for the silliest things. Mistakes are rare.
First: stop it all, take a step back, breathe and clear your mind of any and everything you think you know.
Second: filter and make sure to have a nice separation of solids and liquids.
Third: cook the liquid to a syrup-like consistency.
Fourth: dilute just a bit with HCL and add to a resting container with clean pure copper pieces, wait a couple of weeks.
Fifth: wash the solids clean with water, make sure all solution is gone.
Sixth: cook in HCl (and HCl only) until the last boil is transparently clean.
Seventh: wash with water several times.
Eighth: it is time for HNO3 like 3:1 with water, here you will have to observe, make sure you go until the solution is clean again
Ninth: wash, wash, wash, wash in hot water.
Tenth: process in AR

What is my line of thinking: since my hobby became serious, I am optimizing everything I can to reduce costs. The worst cost for me is HNO3.
I dedicate a considerable amount of attention to whatever comes before the first A/R (I even replace some of the refining steps with poor man's AR, strong A/P, or HCl/Clorine). There are unexpected situations, accidents, etc.

So I take steps back and try to bring everything to a clean slate. In my case, I have been using more H2SO4 for some of the recovery steps (I want to get rid of everything that is not Au and PGMs).

This case is a good example to take a few steps back, reset, try to separate the more possible, try to clean the more possible to remain only with refining material.
So as I understand I should treat my current solids together with the ones I will cement out from solution?
 
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