Electronic scrap recycling and refining.

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Aristo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Messages
191
Location
USA
I am looking for some expertise on the above subject. Volume will be approx 20 tons per cycle in single or multiple batches on a monthly basis. From raw material to metals. I understand that this may span a wider cross section of expertise, however any valid contributions would be appreciated.
If anyone has experience and expertise, please get back to me for a discussion and possible engagement.
Thanks in advance.
 
Very interesting topic for me since I'm chugging along with my own e-waste business for about a year now...

But I got to ask more questions about what exactly you are looking for?
Where exactly do you aim to be in the long journey from old computer to gold bars? And "where the money stream is the thickest" is not an answer... I'd love to engage in discussion, but what are we talking about?
 
That is a very broad question. Kind of like asking whats the weather forecast in North America. What kind of material will make up this 20 tons? Do you want to cherry pick components for refining and ship out bulk? Do you want to completely disassemble and ship to different scrap yards? Or do you want to refine it all? All of what I’ve listed are done to some degree by a good number of members but to get a good discussion going you need to narrow your focus.
 
As 4metals says- can we have some more detail?

Processes can be designed around all the different types- it's like having a menu once you're set up. 8) 8)

Jon
 
Thanks for the searching responses.
Material will be confined to mixed circuit boards. PC, main frame, telecom etc.
I am looking at the conventional approach but I am open to suggestions otherwise.
Anticipated conventional approach:

Sorting
Shredding
Smelting and leaching
Refining
Waste stream disposal..

High grade ( ceramic processors, gold plated boards, cell phone boards) processed separately.
The above is a proven way to deal with said feedstock. However, as stated, I am looking for expert advice, experience and expertise, be it on the above or any other process. Efficiency, % recovery and cost should be taken into consideration.
 
Your post history suggests you have a handle on values within boards.

But what may I ask is your current method of recycling? Are you selling whole, sending to a domestic recycler, etc?

And is your quantity of 20 tons actual board material, or is that a cumulative including all of the garbage (CRT's, steel, aluminum, plastic, etc)

The reason I ask, is your post is still a little vague. The infrastructure to do what you are suggesting is not small, and it's not a person, it's a team of people...from chemical engineers to electrical engineers etc. A multi-million dollar operation without a doubt. I think you will get better responses with more specific questions.
 
Current method is disposition by outright sale or contract with overseas refineries.

Quantity exceeds 20 tons monthly at the moment and will continue to increase.
The above quantity is bare circuit boards, free of all heavy and metallic attachments. The objective is to process the boards in house.. From boards to metal.
For the sake of clearing what appears to be vague, please ask specific questions.
I am quite familiar with the industry and process methods, and I am seeking individuals who have had hands on experience and expertise in large scale processing to discuss and develop current or new innovations and initiatives in processing scrap circuit boards.
 
So my background isn't what you want...but that's ok. It's discussion. For what it's worth, my background is construction, engineering and project management.

In order to refine 20 tons, or 40,000 lbs of boards per two week cycle...you have to be able to refine 10,000 lbs of copper every two weeks. Using conventional methods, that requires a power supply capable of delivering approximately 12,000 Amps. Granted, the voltage is low, so overall KW is still manageable....but it's still not cheap. I came up with 6% of your total copper value being eaten up by your electric bill using residential power rates which are considerably cheaper than industrial. And that's just the power to get the copper from the anode to the cathode.

Dauntless ambition bordering on insane, said in the nicest possible way, to want to build ground up capacity to go from PC boards to elemental metals. I seriously wish you the best....but tread lightly. There's lots of process/assay/ship companies out there that have half of the equation that stopped short at the refining, and I have to think they've ran the numbers and have logical reasons.
 
This is why I send 99% of my product to tried and tested refineries. Ones we have established proper relationships with rather than ones who are just easy to deal with.

The correct refinery deal isn't anything like a "standard" deal and can allow you to differentiate your products into differing streams. I've spoken to many many people who have tried the route of shred, separate, overban, eddy current, etc etc and all have realised that whilst this is good for very low grade product it adds absolutely no benefit whatsoever for higher grade material (150 ppm upwards). It's better being processed by a refinery.

We have begun shredding because it both saves on the $100 per tonne shredding fee AND the shipping. You can get far more in a 40ft container at 25mm shred size than complete, but of course that goes without saying. 8)

So when you can re-purpose a whole $7,000 - $9,000 per month in overall savings the cost of a 4 shaft shredder becomes an investment rather than a potentially $130k outlay.

At the volumes you are talking about that also becomes a reality rather than a pipe dream.

Jon
 
While no expert on e scrap I feel you may well be aiming too high in your expectations.
I can fully understand why you would cherry pick the scrap into materials that you can recover and refine in house but doing the circuit boards as well is another proposition altogether, even with the impressive amount you currently have processed or sell it wouldn’t be commercially viable to refine it and I believe the costs to shred sort and smelt using environmentally allowed equipment which is highly expensive will be the biggest hurdle to even producing dore bars.
I hope I’m wrong in my view but perhaps 4metals or another more knowledgeable member may be able to shed some light on costs of equipment etc.
 
If you are recycling $160,000.00 worth of boards every month, why are you here asking this question? I would think a 16 million+ dollar company would have it's own inhouse expert on such things.

160 thou based on a average of 3 bucks a pound board value sold as-is.
 
silversaddle1 said:
If you are recycling $160,000.00 worth of boards every month, why are you here asking this question? I would think a 16 million+ dollar company would have it's own inhouse expert on such things.

160 thou based on a average of 3 bucks a pound board value sold as-is.

Oh, is $160k per month $16M per annum now? 8) 8)
 
anachronism said:
silversaddle1 said:
If you are recycling $160,000.00 worth of boards every month, why are you here asking this question? I would think a 16 million+ dollar company would have it's own inhouse expert on such things.

160 thou based on a average of 3 bucks a pound board value sold as-is.

Oh, is $160k per month $16M per annum now? 8) 8)

It's fuzzy math! LOL!!! No, you're right, 1.6 mil. My math sucks at 5 in the morning!!!
 
Recently I have been getting a sense that the forum is a bit stagnant. And often when it is slow I go back and read old threads and I become renewed with the potential that this forum has.

Then a thread like this comes along and it is truly about the future growth in the recycling and refining industry. The posted question is valid even if initially vague. But the OP has added information but the responses have been less than stellar. With the exception of Jon’s post there has been little of value. We can do better. E scrap is the future of this industry, and it can be entered on many levels as many current members can attest.

So please see this post as a re- boot of this question. If Aristo would please add more specifics about his feedstock this can turn into a valuable thread for all. Let’s give this thread another go please!
 
4metals said:
Recently I have been getting a sense that the forum is a bit stagnant. And often when it is slow I go back and read old threads and I become renewed with the potential that this forum has.

Sure...it's stagnant....how much e-scrap are you refining 100%? I think for a while you were trying to granulate boards and recover metals from the pulp...get anywhere? I think "cool"...til I think about what 40,000 lbs of boards looks like. Or even what 1,000 lbs of boards looks like in gaylords, and what I imagine the pulp from grinding them looks like.

What it comes down to for most, is the motivation. When Harold started, back in the day...what % do you think his accountability was on karat? When Hoke wrote her book, how do you think she did?

I talk to antique dealers..."we used to throw away gold filled, nobody would buy it". Nobody would buy a product that is worth $200+ / lb and can be refined pretty easily.

Now we are supposed to figure out how to refine a product that comes in under $6/lb intrinsic? Because that's the future?

This forums past is based upon an innovation that can exist in one mans garage, and is limited by their creativity. The future is a multi-billion dollar complex, the size of a village....with the population to match.

On edit...just to add, by no means intended to be confrontational or otherwise. I'm having a frustrating couple of days and it probably came out in my words. But it's a frustration based on the scale of business that one has to operate to really do "ok", and a frustration based on how that scale has changed over the last 50 years.
 
Aristo



I'm getting ready to do just what your wanting to do.Shred,incinerate,table,and smelt.For around 100 thousand you can get it started the first year then take the profits and make your upgrades.Then keep doing it each year until you have the size company you want.I have now refined 3+troy pounds of gold lifetime in 11years and 17+troy pounds of silver in the same time span.I did most of it using minuscule back yard tools and equipment.What your wanting is doable,you just need the right business model to make it work.I ran my business model through a 2000square ft warehouse for 4 months.Me and my partner cleared 60,000.00 after over head.When we moved into a 8,000square ft building the company became a 100,000.00 company in the next 8 months.This is my true life event shared with yall over the years,some have been blind to what I truly know,and others have been smart enough to recognize what I truly know.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44
 
The processes you are talking about can bring you more money working on LOW grade material. i.e. under 25ppm gold or 25g per tonne.

On higher grade material you will make more money sending to a refinery even after charges. It's just being a "busy fool" if you'll pardon the expression, to believe you can get more overall NET return given the work involved. the charges for high yield material are extremely low in comparison to the costs of doing it yourself.

As you know there are no silver bullets or magic potions but knowing where the time and money is best spent is a discipline in itself.
 
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