Ethical Quandry?/Legal Culpability?

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Avery

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
24
I live in a very small town - around 1500 ppl. A couple of months ago when I decided to pursue this as a hobby I talked to some of my friends to see if they had any broken gold jewelry and I had my mom put the word out among her friends that if they had any I’d be happy to buy it as long as we could agree on a fair price.

Well, anyone who has lived in a small town knows how news travels. A couple of days ago a guy that I had gone to grade school and high school with stopped by and said he heard I was buying gold jewelry. He had about an ounce, one thing led to another, and I ended up buying it for about 60% of spot which is pretty close to the same he’d get at a pawn shop.

After he left, I remembered that I heard a while back that he was known to steal things to feed his drug habit. Now, whether this stuff is stolen I have no idea. But looking at it from a thief’s perspective, that’s the perfect way to offload jewelry that you steal since I’m not a pawn shop I don’t have to keep records.

So here’s my questions...I know the chief of police so taking it up there and showing it to him wouldn’t be a problem at all. I know I wouldn’t be charged with receiving stolen property but what would you guys do? If I do it and it is stolen, there goes my money out the window. On the other hand, simply in terms of morally speaking the answer is to let the authorities know. But I have to admit I am kind of torn.

Has anyone ran into anything similar?
 
The fact that you realize the risks and the dangers of becoming a Maffia drop point and contributing to the local criminal scene, says it all. Knowing or suspecting and not acting is to be an accomplice imo.
You are responsible for Your actions.
If I were you, I would keep track of any jewelry you purchase and even take pictures and file them to make sure when the issue rizes, you can provide police with evidence. And report it to local authorities if theft is suspected.
At least try to figure out what the local law says about it. And if you are allowed to smelt privately puchased gold and jewelry. Its a very gray area I think.
Maybe let the seller sign a statement that he declares the goods came from a legal sourdce and were not stolen.
That being said, consider your position if said criminals have built up a relationsship with you and "obligate/force you to buy their goods.
Small town news travels just as fast in the criminal circles as amongst locals. They need to sell their merchandise for "reasonable profits" You may not be able to go back, once entered.

On the other hand, it is a cheap source of gold, they are happy with 60%.. dopeheads.. :lol:
Guess it all relies on your morality, smelting your neighbours precious items. Oh, and hide your gold, they might come and steal it from you!! Now they know where to look :lol: :lol:
Good night, sleep tight :wink:

Martijn.
 
Well they also know how many guns I have and have known me all my life so I’m not afraid of retaliation. And I think if I just took it up to the police station he’d just take pictures of it and tell me to hold on to it for a certain amount of time and if they get a report during that time he’d give me a call to bring it in to see if the owner can identify it.

But I think if I took this first batch up there that word would get around that thieves shouldn’t “fence” their goods through me and that would be the end of it. Which is probably what I’m going to do because I could end up neck deep in a theft ring conspiracy before I knew it and I don’t think playing dumb that I didn’t know it was stolen after the same people just kept bringing gold over and over and over. And I rly don’t want to do 5-10 years in the big house. I’m just a little fellar and rly have no desire to be someone’s boyfriend.

But you are right, the temptation to have a constant stream of cheap gold coming in is tempting.
 
Laws vary from state to state on this.

In Ohio, if I "hold myself out to the public" as someone who buys precious metals, I am considered to be comparable to a pawn shop, whether or not I run a bricks and mortar store front. I am required to get identification from sellers, and to report all purchases to the local police. I have to hold all purchases for a period of time in case the police find I may have bought stolen goods.

Research your state's laws and stay legal.

Dave
 
Two things to protect youself.
One is to require ID of the seller, like a drivers license, and make a copy.
Two is to ask them to sign an statement that they are the rightful owners of the material.
This will protect you from any criminal liability, but it will not protect you from any financial losses. Dave is absolutely correct.
 
Well they also know how many guns I have and have known me all my life so I’m not afraid of retaliation. And I think if I just took it up to the police station he’d just take pictures of it and tell me to hold on to it for a certain amount of time and if they get a report during that time he’d give me a call to bring it in to see if the owner can identify it.

But I think if I took this first batch up there that word would get around that thieves shouldn’t “fence” their goods through me and that would be the end of it. Which is probably what I’m going to do because I could end up neck deep in a theft ring conspiracy before I knew it and I don’t think playing dumb that I didn’t know it was stolen after the same people just kept bringing gold over and over and over. And I rly don’t want to do 5-10 years in the big house. I’m just a little fellar and rly have no desire to be someone’s boyfriend.

But you are right, the temptation to have a constant stream of cheap gold coming in is tempting.
Do the right thing, usually not the easiest path. ALWAYS get a signed bill of sale for anything of value. Take a pic of seller with merchandise, would help. No regrets or legal/criminal problems...
 
You are obviously worried on the morality so that should tell you the answer you seek, the choice is either worry about losing your money or be responsible for the possible loss of your friends and neighbors goods, a quick phone call to your police chief , who probably knows you are buying gold as it’s a small town, may be the way to go , perhaps even a photo of the said items sent to him would be advisable.
 
Yeah a lot of states have 24 hour reporting requirements from what I've read. That said, in most states gold is not considered a financial instrument so trade or transfer between private individuals is not regulated the same way. If you want to just buy one or two pieces to work with and keep it hobby, you shouldn't run into problems like this but if you have any intention of doing it long term or at scale then it's best to keep records even if you don't need to.
At least that's my plan. In TX you are not required to report gold purchases if you only buy directly from individuals like at an estate sale or something but if you set up shot and people come to you, then you have to report everything and keep records.
 
In Ohio as a registered and licensed Bulk Metal Recycler (someone who publicly buys metal as a trade for profit) in order to be indemnified from liability I am required to:

Make a color copy of their non-expired State issued ID.
Take a color photograph of the seller with a time and date stamp.
Record the license plate of the vehicle used in facilitating the sale.
Run the above information through the States "Do Not Buy" system BEFORE accepting any material.
If customer is "Clear to Buy" we then:
Photograph certain specialty items on the scale.
Record weights, class and descriptions of all items purchased.
Have the seller sign a paragraph long disclaimer saying a bunch of legal things amounting to "this is my stuff that I legally sold you".
Upload ALL of the above data, forms and pics to the State of Ohio data center in Columbus at the end of each and every transaction.

The software required to do the above can run as high as $10,000 and another $2500+ a year maintenance.

Fortunately I am a programmer of 30+ years so I personally built that capability directly into our own point of sale system saving us the money, but unfortunately the State continues to modify the requirements resulting in a never ending need for me to "update" my code. Frustrating as all heck.

Another example of big government making it difficult for small businesses. The sad truth is these step were put into place to curb metal theft yet the State does nothing at all with the data, we know this through our own unfortunate theft experiences. It has done nothing to help slow theft and has only created more costs and hurdles for those trying to run an honest business. Rant over. Sorry.
 
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