Excess smb in AR

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Yes. I know these cables. It takes a huge amount in weight to make an appreciable amount. The gold you see in that filter can get lost in 1000ml's of solution. How much solution are you talking about? To give you a little perspective, if all the gold there was connected in a single sheet at that thickness, you would have no problem reading a printed page reading through it. It's not like foils you would find on finger cards. Fingers on slot cards may have gold up to 30 µin where the ribbon fingers may be as thin as 5 µin. There may be a tenth of a gram.

But, we will assume I am totally wrong and proceed from there.

It is possible that all of the gold that was there did precipitate. Leave it undisturbed over night and see what collects on the bottom of the container.
 
Respected Members May I ask one question here that is it confirmed that the testing of AR solution with Stannous chloride shows 100% sure result of gold, Palladium, Platinum (in black, purple black etc) ?? or some other metals may also show the same colour with stannous chloride testing ??
Thanks and regards
 
Respected Members May I ask one question here that is it confirmed that the testing of AR solution with Stannous chloride shows 100% sure result of gold, Palladium, Platinum (in black, purple black etc) ?? or some other metals may also show the same colour with stannous chloride testing ??
Thanks and regards
In my understanding, under normal testing conditions, stannous chloride is selective for precious metals, That is not to say that stannous chloride can not be forced to react to other metal. In the case of a false positive, the SO2 in solution can force a reaction to other metals such as copper. There are some more examples of stannous chloride causing a reaction or effect with other metal, so the chemistry is not fool proof. The benefits of using stannous chloride, even with these adverse effects, far outweighs any bad effects it may cause.
 
Yes. I know these cables. It takes a huge amount in weight to make an appreciable amount. The gold you see in that filter can get lost in 1000ml's of solution. How much solution are you talking about? To give you a little perspective, if all the gold there was connected in a single sheet at that thickness, you would have no problem reading a printed page reading through it. It's not like foils you would find on finger cards. Fingers on slot cards may have gold up to 30 µin where the ribbon fingers may be as thin as 5 µin. There may be a tenth of a gram.

But, we will assume I am totally wrong and proceed from there.

It is possible that all of the gold that was there did precipitate. Leave it undisturbed over night and see what collects on the bottom of the container.
yes you are right, I did not loose much but is very little, I let you know how much there is. But in this case learning was more important to me.
 
Yes. I know these cables. It takes a huge amount in weight to make an appreciable amount. The gold you see in that filter can get lost in 1000ml's of solution. How much solution are you talking about? To give you a little perspective, if all the gold there was connected in a single sheet at that thickness, you would have no problem reading a printed page reading through it. It's not like foils you would find on finger cards. Fingers on slot cards may have gold up to 30 µin where the ribbon fingers may be as thin as 5 µin. There may be a tenth of a gram.

But, we will assume I am totally wrong and proceed from there.

It is possible that all of the gold that was there did precipitate. Leave it undisturbed over night and see what collects on the bottom of the container.
That is the gold which settled at the bottom, it seems like I did not loose very much, although I could not decant all the way down and there was some very little gold which went to the stockpot by decanting, now I have wash it again and thinking to use a small paper filter to filter and wash the beaker in. I could weigh the filter first and then weigh again with the gold after I have dried it. I am not sure how well this is visible
 

Attachments

  • 20220521_113220.jpg
    20220521_113220.jpg
    522.1 KB · Views: 10
  • 20220521_120530.jpg
    20220521_120530.jpg
    1,003.7 KB · Views: 10
In my understanding, under normal testing conditions, stannous chloride is selective for precious metals, That is not to say that stannous chloride can not be forced to react to other metal. In the case of a false positive, the SO2 in solution can force a reaction to other metals such as copper. There are some more examples of stannous chloride causing a reaction or effect with other metal, so the chemistry is not fool proof. The benefits of using stannous chloride, even with these adverse effects, far outweighs any bad effects it may cause.
Thanks for clarification
 
Respected Members May I ask one question here that is it confirmed that the testing of AR solution with Stannous chloride shows 100% sure result of gold, Palladium, Platinum (in black, purple black etc) ?? or some other metals may also show the same colour with stannous chloride testing ??
Thanks and regards
I apologize about the short answer, it was late and I was sleepy. The color of the stannous chloride test on the common metals a refiner might find varies. Gold, of course, is purple to black. Palladium starts out yellow to slightly orange, I call it rainbow because you can see two or three different colors, but over a period of minutes, the test will change in color to green. Light green is minor content while olive green is much more palladium metal in solution. Platinum will turn orange and stay orange to orange/red. Rhodium will turn red and stay red. If there is enough rhodium in solution, the stannous test will look like a drop of blood.
 
That is the gold which settled at the bottom, it seems like I did not loose very much, although I could not decant all the way down and there was some very little gold which went to the stockpot by decanting, now I have wash it again and thinking to use a small paper filter to filter and wash the beaker in. I could weigh the filter first and then weigh again with the gold after I have dried it. I am not sure how well this is visible
The gold is heavy compared to water. 19 times heavier in fact. Decant as much water off as you can. Then rinse the gold powder into a smaller glass container. As small as possible. Let all the powder settle completely and decant again. If you can, transfer to a smaller container. Every time you move to a smaller container, it allows you to decant more water without the gold moving. What you are trying to do is get the gold powder dry without transferring the powder to a filter paper. Filter papers will trap the gold powder. Depending on what you are planning to melt the gold powder with, if you do put the gold powder in a filter, you need to melt the gold still in the filter. Place the filter and all in a melting dish. The filter paper will make the borax black momentarily until the torch burns the carbon away. I try not to add anything to my melt dish except for the metal I am melting.
 
I apologize about the short answer, it was late and I was sleepy. The color of the stannous chloride test on the common metals a refiner might find varies. Gold, of course, is purple to black. Palladium starts out yellow to slightly orange, I call it rainbow because you can see two or three different colors, but over a period of minutes, the test will change in color to green. Light green is minor content while olive green is much more palladium metal in solution. Platinum will turn orange and stay orange to orange/red. Rhodium will turn red and stay red. If there is enough rhodium in solution, the stannous test will look like a drop of blood.
I am really very thankful to you and highly obliged of detailed description and appreciate your efforts on the forum
 
The gold is heavy compared to water. 19 times heavier in fact. Decant as much water off as you can. Then rinse the gold powder into a smaller glass container. As small as possible. Let all the powder settle completely and decant again. If you can, transfer to a smaller container. Every time you move to a smaller container, it allows you to decant more water without the gold moving. What you are trying to do is get the gold powder dry without transferring the powder to a filter paper. Filter papers will trap the gold powder. Depending on what you are planning to melt the gold powder with, if you do put the gold powder in a filter, you need to melt the gold still in the filter. Place the filter and all in a melting dish. The filter paper will make the borax black momentarily until the torch burns the carbon away. I try not to add anything to my melt dish except for the metal I am melting.
I have weighed the two pieces of filter I have used and partially dried so far it looks like there are 5 grams from a bit over 2kg of ribbons but when it dries completely it could be less. I don't know what is about this gold but is extremely fine that there is clinging to the beaker walls when I decant even if I spray with the water there is some left and a tiny bit floats even when sprayed with water. I will not melt, I will save them. There might still be some left in the solutions I decanted and filtered and on the walls of a bucket. However the biggest gain is the learning. When you melt it how do you direct the fire. I am trying to use a propane burner torch and a cylindrical small graphite crucible when I decide to melt. Still so much to learn
Also I had a big problem with another type of coffee filter because very fine gold got through.
 
Last edited:
Charmin plug for a filter will work to catch the fine stuff. Dropping from a dilute solution will often cause the precipitates to be very fine and slow settling. Combine with a dirty solution e.g. copper, can cause it as well. When I used coffee filters I had problems with contaminants in my melted gold. When I went to lab grade filters (thanks snowman) the quality of my gold buttons went up drastically. Geo taught me the charmin plug method which made a large improvement as well.
 
I have weighed the two pieces of filter I have used and partially dried so far it looks like there are 5 grams from a bit over 2kg of ribbons but when it dries completely it could be less. I don't know what is about this gold but is extremely fine that there is clinging to the beaker walls when I decant even if I spray with the water there is some left and a tiny bit floats even when sprayed with water. I will not melt, I will save them. There might still be some left in the solutions I decanted and filtered and on the walls of a bucket. However the biggest gain is the learning. When you melt it how do you direct the fire. I am trying to use a propane burner torch and a cylindrical small graphite crucible when I decide to melt. Still so much to learn
Also I had a big problem with another type of coffee filter because very fine gold got through.
It is a possibility that all of the precipitated solids is not gold but insoluble salts. There is several different types of gold plating. The plating that deposits the least amount of gold is used on the types of low grade connectors. Look up "honeydipped gold plating" and read up on it. It is an immersion type plating. The thickness is dependent on time immersed in the solution. Usually long enough for the plated part to look gold colored. No doubt these part were plated in real gold but there are plating solution that looks like gold but contains no gold. Usually copper based. Even though the gold was real, there's just not a lot of it.
 
Charmin plug for a filter will work to catch the fine stuff. Dropping from a dilute solution will often cause the precipitates to be very fine and slow settling. Combine with a dirty solution e.g. copper, can cause it as well. When I used coffee filters I had problems with contaminants in my melted gold. When I went to lab grade filters (thanks snowman) the quality of my gold buttons went up drastically. Geo taught me the charmin plug method which made a large improvement as well.
I would not use a graphite cylinder using a torch. Too much surface area to heat unless it is sitting in a furnace. When torch melting, use a fused silica melting dish. There are tutorials all over the forum on how to prep a dish and use it correctly. Prep the dish and glaze it with borax. Make sure the melt dish is hot and add the material. Depending on the torch you have (oxy/fuel is best) play the torch gently across the top edge of the melt dish allowing the flame to indirectly heat the top of the heap. Once the top is a red heat, you can move the flame over the heap a little more and a little more from the outside inward until you reach the middle. Then direct the heat on the middle until it starts to melt and then go in reverse back to the outside edge of the dish. Like anything else, it takes practice. Clean pure gold is much harder to blow out of a melting dish than most people thinks. Gold is very heavy when compared to most everything else.

Sorry Shark. I meant to reply to @dpgold
 
Last edited:
I would not use a graphite cylinder using a torch. Too much surface area to heat unless it is sitting in a furnace. When torch melting, use a fused silica melting dish. There are tutorials all over the forum on how to prep a dish and use it correctly. Prep the dish and glaze it with borax. Make sure the melt dish is hot and add the material. Depending on the torch you have (oxy/fuel is best) play the torch gently across the top edge of the melt dish allowing the flame to indirectly heat the top of the heap. Once the top is a red heat, you can move the flame over the heap a little more and a little more from the outside inward until you reach the middle. Then direct the heat on the middle until it starts to melt and then go in reverse back to the outside edge of the dish. Like anything else, it takes practice. Clean pure gold is much harder to blow out of a melting dish than most people thinks. Gold is very heavy when compared to most everything else.

Sorry Shark. I meant to reply to @dpgold
Thanks, very good explanation.
 
Also clean gold will melt faster than dirty gold. Clean gold will also make your melting dish last longer. Getting a very clean, pure button of gold is a real rush as well. It makes all the study and work worth while.
 
It can be any of those. It is more in how you plug the opening in the funnel. I have used cotton balls as well but my preferred material for AR was shredded fiberglass. The stuff used as home insulation. I would pack a small wad in the funnel opening and make it tight enough to trap more of the particles than a coffee filter could catch. There is quite a lot of posts about them on the forum. Many people have their own way of using them and it can be a very useful tool for those just getting started.
 
Also clean gold will melt faster than dirty gold. Clean gold will also make your melting dish last longer. Getting a very clean, pure button of gold is a real rush as well. It makes all the study and work worth while.
yes, I enjoy all the experiments and learning as well, so much stuff to learn and remember!
 
Back
Top