Feedback Wanted for Ingots

jbollinger97

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Dec 31, 2021
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Hi all,

Recently had our ingots fire assayed. Please see below. I am hoping to get some feedback as to which refineries you would recommend selling to/anyone willing to work with us. We've had one refiner only offer 80% of recovered Au as payout, as well as 42% recovered of Ir, and 70% of recovered Pt. They were unwilling to pay for all the other metals. Bars are domestic but willing to export if letter-of-credit can be verified by our bank.

Production: 100Kg/month (roughly 100 ingots)

Really appreciate your help folks. Thanks

Josh
 

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orvi

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Pretty tough separation, I think. Maybe that´s why the low percentages for target elements, but anyway I see being that low on other PGMs not very nice. But I cannot judge it hence I do not have much experience in the regular refining business.
Main composition of values is Os, this would be nightmare for unprepared refinery to process, not mentioning on regular basis. Osmium compounds are toxic (with "funky" ability to penetrate some plastics and gloves - OsO4) and market for osmium is not particularly huge. Melting point above 3000°C and brittle nature is another thing why you do not see osmium bars around that often :) Altough it is relatively cheap compared to other platinum metals.

Sadly, I worked with OsO4 and K2OsO4 sufficiently enough in my life as organic chemist. Also with RuCl3/Oxone or NaClO - generating RuO4. Never again. To this day, I remember waste bottles for these compounds being situated in a fume cupboard. Once we performed some Sharpless dihydroxylation or Ru catalyzed oxidation, waste (mainly aqueous) was poured to the bottle. Once the bottle was changed for plastic HDPE one (since it was on hand and waste was aqueous...). After a week, bottle was black. Ru and Os oxides started to penetrate the plastic, supposedly converting themselfs to OsO2 or other black oxides/metallic particles inside the plastic. If it was because specific composition of the waste, i do not know. But i am not very keen to watch it again. OsO4 is very lipophillic, and so is RuO4. Better friend with your gloves and hands, than with water.

Big professional PGM refinery must deal with this Ru/Os problem on regular basis (since dore/raw PGM cons refining etc) and is well prepared for this. Mid-sized refinery set up mainly for karat scrap, and having some "PGM" stream/process for the cat/jewellery/military/other feed would struggle with this. As for small refiner, I would recommend personally to stay away from Ru/Os unless proper scrubber+fume hood are in place and they work perfectly :)

What is the base metal composition of the bars ? Zinc ? Lead ? Iron ? Copper/Nickel ?
 

jbollinger97

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Dec 31, 2021
Messages
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Location
San Diego
Pretty tough separation, I think. Maybe that´s why the low percentages for target elements, but anyway I see being that low on other PGMs not very nice. But I cannot judge it hence I do not have much experience in the regular refining business.
Main composition of values is Os, this would be nightmare for unprepared refinery to process, not mentioning on regular basis. Osmium compounds are toxic (with "funky" ability to penetrate some plastics and gloves - OsO4) and market for osmium is not particularly huge. Melting point above 3000°C and brittle nature is another thing why you do not see osmium bars around that often :) Altough it is relatively cheap compared to other platinum metals.

Sadly, I worked with OsO4 and K2OsO4 sufficiently enough in my life as organic chemist. Also with RuCl3/Oxone or NaClO - generating RuO4. Never again. To this day, I remember waste bottles for these compounds being situated in a fume cupboard. Once we performed some Sharpless dihydroxylation or Ru catalyzed oxidation, waste (mainly aqueous) was poured to the bottle. Once the bottle was changed for plastic HDPE one (since it was on hand and waste was aqueous...). After a week, bottle was black. Ru and Os oxides started to penetrate the plastic, supposedly converting themselfs to OsO2 or other black oxides/metallic particles inside the plastic. If it was because specific composition of the waste, i do not know. But i am not very keen to watch it again. OsO4 is very lipophillic, and so is RuO4. Better friend with your gloves and hands, than with water.

Big professional PGM refinery must deal with this Ru/Os problem on regular basis (since dore/raw PGM cons refining etc) and is well prepared for this. Mid-sized refinery set up mainly for karat scrap, and having some "PGM" stream/process for the cat/jewellery/military/other feed would struggle with this. As for small refiner, I would recommend personally to stay away from Ru/Os unless proper scrubber+fume hood are in place and they work perfectly :)

What is the base metal composition of the bars ? Zinc ? Lead ? Iron ? Copper/Nickel ?
Hi sir, thank you for the response. Yes, the base metals are a mix of Cu and Pb.
 

Swissgoldrefiner

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Hello,
Where are you located? Mexcio or USA?
I think you can get better deal than you mention. However, i agree with Orvi that working with Os will be a little hard.
You write that you can have 100 Kg/month...but how much you can have in total? Depending on that, it can be easier to make an offer to you.
 

jbollinger97

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Dec 31, 2021
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San Diego
All:

I've sent off these ingots to be refined at Sims in Franklin Park IL. This should give me a real idea of what it is that we have on hand. After that, I will be sure to share my results with you all!

Thank you,

Josh
 

Lou

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jbollinger...just send it to Swissgoldrefiner. I've never heard of Sims refining Ir/Os/Ru...ever. It'll go to Switzerland, where these types of materials go, then it will get sent back to USA to be refined. Somewhere somehow you might be paid for it.
 

Swissgoldrefiner

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jbollinger...just send it to Swissgoldrefiner. I've never heard of Sims refining Ir/Os/Ru...ever. It'll go to Switzerland, where these types of materials go, then it will get sent back to USA to be refined. Somewhere somehow you might be paid for it.
To be honest Lou...i have contact with all big refiner in Switzerland like Metalor, Valcambi,PAMP,...but none of them refine Ir or Os...
However, i may know some people who can do that.
I heard you are good at refining, why not give a try to this ingot? I would love to refine it, but i fear the Osmium...
 

snoman701

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Melting point above 3000°C and brittle nature is another thing why you do not see osmium bars around that often :) Altough it is relatively cheap compared to other platinum metals.
I think it's more because of the low vapor pressure.

You end up vaporizing enough of it that it contaminates your furnace with something that makes you go blind, and nobody wants that.
 

Yggdrasil

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I think it's more because of the low vapor pressure.

You end up vaporizing enough of it that it contaminates your furnace with something that makes you go blind, and nobody wants that.
I'm curious.
Will there be a risk of tetraoxides if you melt in an inert atmosphere?
Which I thought would be a must in these temperatures.
Regards Per-Ove
 

orvi

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I'm curious.
Will there be a risk of tetraoxides if you melt in an inert atmosphere?
Which I thought would be a must in these temperatures.
Regards Per-Ove
On the first look, no. It should be OK. Osmium will burn in air at elevated temperature to OsO2 and then with more oxygen to OsO4 eventually. But at 3000°C, I cannot be certain - if CO2/N2 do not react. With Ar as inert I would be pretty much certain.
But I don´t know precisely. Never attempted to melt osmium :)
 

Lou

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Osmium is melted in reduced pressure with traces of argon or helium. It's when you open the chamber to manipulate it in air that the fine spatters and dusting of crystalline deposited osmium that turns into OsO4.

Don't ask how I know this.
 

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